[TEPaul]

Marc:

Undoubtedly you're right about that. I'm so dense on basic agronomy I've never even figured out the difference between "acidic" and "alkaline". I guess my point was supposed to be that the original linksland and heathland soils were not fertile enough for any other use. And that fescue and bent could grow well with little competition in that environment. Would that be correct?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I haven't got time now, but I'll have stab at a list tomorrow.  

[Stuart Hallett]

TEP,
Low fertility was the reason that Linksland and Heathland were not exploited, and hence available for golf.

But surely the most important land characteristic, more so than low fertility, must have been the free draining nature of Linksland & heathland. This must be the main connection between the two, do you agree ?

[Brian_Ewen]

Marc
Thanks for the reply , and confirming my thoughts . I can now rant in the bar post-round with more authority .  

That day I spent at the Dunhill at Carnoustie it was so quiet , I walked up the fairways of 6 and 7 , and I couldnt help thinking how much more heathland they looked nowadays.

Rich
Agree with your list apart from Kirriemuir , I wouldnt call it heathland .

You could add Elgin ? .

Brian

[ForkaB]

Brian

Played Kirriemuir once about 20 years ago, and my brain says "heathland." but I don't remember the course nearly as well as I remember "The Ball at Kirriemuir"........

Haven't played Elgin.

Played Edzell this spring and agree with you.  Whatever heathland was there has been "maintained" into oblivion.

[Marc Haring]

Marc:

Undoubtedly you're right about that. I'm so dense on basic agronomy I've never even figured out the difference between "acidic" and "alkaline". I guess my point was supposed to be that the original linksland and heathland soils were not fertile enough for any other use. And that fescue and bent could grow well with little competition in that environment. Would that be correct?

Tom

Spot on.

[Marc Haring]

TEP,
Low fertility was the reason that Linksland and Heathland were not exploited, and hence available for golf.

But surely the most important land characteristic, more so than low fertility, must have been the free draining nature of Linksland & heathland. This must be the main connection between the two, do you agree ?

Stuart and Tom

All perfectly correct but I will add another element into the equation....earthworms.

Pre deadly chemicals, the inland clay courses would have become a sea of mud in the winter and frankly unusable because of the earthworm.

Dr James Beard -the well known agronomist- has made the connection between the introduction of effective worm killers and the spread of golf inland to courses other than those on a sandy soil. Earthworms do not like a sandy soil because it acts as an irritant to their digestive system, although how the scientists worked that one out is beyond me.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Where does downland fit in?  It often seems to produce playing characteristics not unlike links or heath.

[TEPaul]

Stuart Hallett said;

"But surely the most important land characteristic, more so than low fertility, must have been the free draining nature of Linksland & heathland. This must be the main connection between the two, do you agree?"

Stuart:

I really don't know if I agree with that or not. But it's probably something some good old fashioned in-depth research might confirm or deny.

I'd say that the original linksland courses are so old and even the heathland courses are old enough where it may be very debatable that those who first utilized those areas for golf had ever even thought of a perc test (drainage test) much less utilized one.  

[ForkaB]

Tom

The "perc" test used by GCAs on linksland is simple and ancient:

1.  Wait for rain (usually this does not take very long....)
2.  Repair to the bar.
3.  Go outside again when it stops raining
4.  Check for standing water.
5.  If there is any you are not on linksland, if there is none, you are.

[Stuart Hallett]

Tom P,

Anyone who has worked and tried to understand one's land, whether it be large scale farming or simple backyard gardening, doesn't need a percolation test to identify high sand content and good drainage. I suspect that this basic understanding is ancient, very ancient !

Jim Arthur was preaching the same golf maintenance techniques for many decades, most of which are still relevant. The "firm & fast" formula is much about common sense and agronomical basics. It's nothing new, just more sophisticated and en vogue.

[TEPaul]

"But surely the most important land characteristic, more so than low fertility, must have been the free draining nature of Linksland & heathland. This must be the main connection between the two, do you agree?"

Stuart:

I do think it is the main connection between the two. All I meant is I doubt that fact of good drainage was a large consideration for playing golf there in the first place, at least certainly the linksland. From everything I've ever read about the linksland, particularly TOC is originally golf was played on it because it wasn't useful for farming or much else. In other words, golf had no competitive uses on the linksland originally. Obviously golf was not considered land use competition to the sheep and rabbits that were there and luckily they were the original lawnmowers for the agrostis and festuca of the swards.

[Tim Liddy]

I can not resist:)

[Marc Haring]

Tim

I am astounded.. That must be one of the rarest golf pictures ever. Swinley Forest and people actually out playing it

Did they not rebuild that green a year or two back? Is that pre rebuild or post?

[Tim Liddy]

I beleive they improved the drainage around the back-right of the green with a new swale.  I do not think they did anything on the green.  This photo was taken last month.

[Steve Okula]

Tony,

I think you should strike Queenwood off the list. It was not built on heathland, the sand and heather were imported, and whatever its merits, it is artificially contrived and so not a "true" heathland course.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Where does downland fit in?  It often seems to produce playing characteristics not unlike links or heath.

Not sure Mark perhaps you could mention a few of the courses you have in mind. Also it would be great if you could find tiem to add more Heathland courses we're upto about 60.  (Calling Jack Marr or someone else to add more in Ireland.)

I was hoping somone down under would tell us how Heathland compares to sandbelt...

TE Paul has pointed out that after Links courses the next 'group' of important courses were Heathland largely because they share playing characteristics.  However as the Heathland tracks generally required more work, than just placing pins and deciding where to mow the grass short, they were crucial in developing GCA.

And thank you Marc for explaining how the acid soil is what really  defines Heathland.  It seems that Heather is the most obvious sign as Gorse, pines, birch etc will grow on a much wider range of soils.

[Jack_Marr]

I'm not sure how many Heathland course we have. I presume Druid's Heath is one, but I hve not played it. Then there's Cork Golf Club, The Heath, Carlow Golf Club, The Curragh, Fermoy... I'm not sure how many more. Some of these courses are very good indeed.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Downland courses - I'm thinking of places such as Dunstable Downs, Worthing, North Foreland, Ogbourne Downs, Goring and Streatley, West Berkshire.

I'm sure this won't be a comprehensive list, but here's a stab at English heathland courses:

The Berkshire (X2)
East Berkshire
Newbury and Crookham (not sure - I haven't been there for MANY years)
Royal Ascot (?)
Swinley Forest
Stoke Poges
Sandiway (though precious little heather survives)
Yelverton
Broadstone
Ferndown
Isle of Purbeck
Knighton Heath
Parkstone
Wareham (?)
South Moor (?)
Orsett
Army (?)
Blackmoor
Liphook
North Hants
Berkhamsted (probably not heath, but plays like one)
Rowany
Charnwood Forest
Woodhall Spa
Thetford
Coxmoor
Notts
Sherwood Forest
Tadmarton Heath
Luffenham Heath
Beau Desert
Penn (haven't been there since I was a boy, so memory may be dangerous)
Whittington Heath (in parts, like the curate's egg)
Aldeburgh
Ipswich (Purdis Heath)
Rushmere
Thorpeness (in parts)
Woodbridge
The Addington
Camberley Heath
Coombe Hill (is there any heather remaining?)
Farnham (part)
Hankley Common
Hindhead (parts)
New Zealand
RAC (X2 but it's over 30 years since last I was there)
Sunningdale (X2)
Sunningdale Ladies
Walton Heath (X2)
Wentworth (X2 - I'm not counting the Edinburgh)
West Hill
Woking
Worplesdon
Crowborough Beacon (bits)
West Sussex
Sutton Coldfield (bits)
Fulford (bits beyond the A64)
Alwoodley
Bingley St Ives (a bit)
Moortown (a little remains)
Sand Moor (does any remain?)


Must go to cook the supper - you wouldn't want my family to starve, would you!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Strangely enough, I left out quite a number of courses with Heath in the title such as Fulford Heath, Flackwell Heath, Copt Heath.  

[TEPaul]

Mark:

Isn't Ganton a heathland course? Sure looked like one to me.

[Paul_Turner]

Tom

No heather at Ganton.   Although land with gorse (Ganton) is sometimes included as "heath".

I can't add much to Mark's list.

Crosland Heath looks to have quite a lot of heath, from aerials.

As does the 9 holer: Burley.

Brokenhurst Manor has a small amount.  And there's a course nearby called, I think, New Forest, which has some.

Woburn Duchess has a few areas on the 1st, 3rd (used to be quite large amount on both holes) 9th and 18th.



In Holland:  Pan, Hilversum have a lot of heather and a few others I can't recall the names of (Eindhoven has small patched).

Spa in Belgium had a few plants here and there.  Mostly in bunker faces.

Germany: Falkenstein

[Paul_Turner]

Reigate Heath,  Royal Ashdown (2?), Piltdown?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Thanks Mark and Paul, we're upto around 86 including the partials but d/qing any with an objection.  I can't imagine we could ever get a list of 100 without disagreement.

Nothing from Wales, I tried the tourist board site and they don't even have a course with the name Heath in it.  (Could it be that the requiremnt for a dry site makes this unlikely and accounts for the concntration of courses in SE England?)

I'd just like to add, "my favourite hazard" is Heather.

[Brian_Ewen]

I have one of those Scottish Greensavers books lying here .

They list Heathland courses in Scotland as :

Blairgowrie
Ballumbie Castle
Kemnay
Elgin
Lamlash
Ladybank
Alyth
Dunkeld & Birnam
Forfar
Kirriemuir    
Falkirk Tryst
Boat of Garten
Fort Augustus
Torphin Hill
Edzell
Dufftown
Lauder
Moffat
Whitekirk
Lothianburn
The Dukes Course
Fort William
Port Bannatyne
Easter Moffat
Westerwood Hotel GC
Craigie Hill
Gleneagles Kings
Gleaneagles Queens
( I refuse to include the Nicklaus Course )
Gourock
Muir of Ord
Strathpeffer
Galasheils
Innerleithen
Selkirk
Abernethy
Carrbridge
Kingussie
Golspie
Grantown on Spey
Bonar Bridge

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()