Laying Out v. Designing

[Kyle Harris]

This may be an arbitrary dichotomy for most, but what's the difference between laying out a golf course and designing one?

It seems that some posters use them in certain situations, while others interchange.

[RJ_Daley]

My concept of it is, you lay out a golf course on ground like Sand Hills.  You design a course with drawings and detailed plans.

I'm thinking that guys like C&C (Sand Hills), Bunkerhill (Wild Horse), Doak (Ballyneal-Barnbougle), Strantz (Tobacco Road), did more laying out on those than designing.  Yet, C&C or Doak also design.  Maybe Tom Doak will come on here and say if he has "laid out" a course and which ones.  Of course he and his team design them with very fine detailed plans mostly (like Rawls at TT).  

Bendelow was a lay out fellow, Ross was a design man.

[paul cowley]

Kyle....I think for the most part they are synonomous, as in analyzing a course layout or design.....or coupled together, as in the design and layout of so and so.......

[Mark_Fine]

RJ,
How can you say Ross was a "lay out" guy when he didn't see a third of his courses.  He simply followed topo maps and laid in golf holes on these.  If you are calling that design then the the words "lay out and design" are interchangable.  

Tobacco Road is a great course but it was "manufactured" by Strantz.  He sure didn't find that one.  It was designed and built!  I remember him saying one time about how much maintenance effort it takes on that course to "make the low maintenance areas" look like they are low maintenance areas.  Many of those "natural areas" that we think are natural were shaped and planted by hand.

Mark

[TEPaul]

"Laying out" a golf course is sort of an old-fashioned term. It was used far more in the 19th and early part of the 20th century. It may've been somewhat synoymous with designing a golf course but in many cases I think it was a description was one for a basic routing without really designing many features into the holes such as bunkers etc. In a basic "lay-out" detailed design features would've come later and probably by someone else who was local.

You know the old fashioned term "18 stakes on a Sunday afternoon"? That was a basic "lay-out".

[Jeff_Mingay]

Laying out a course suggests routing holes to me. The actual design of the holes follows - ie. green contour, bunker placement and style, and other features.

[Tom_Doak]

It's just semantics.  There may be a difference for some users of these terms, but there is not any difference for others.

"Lay out" in the construction business is staking out the course according to the plans.