[John Shimp]

Who has examples of courses that tend to play consistently longer than their stated yardages?  Ones where the big drive rarely seems to leave you with as short an approach as you thought or where the extra club into the green is almost always the correct call.  I'm not searching for courses with a few particularly long playing holes, or  courses that are long if its windy or wet (most are!).  

Why do certain courses tend to play long?  Prevalence of uphill approaches, little fairway roll due to playing conditions or turf type, tight landing areas, etc.?

[ForkaB]

Most Irish courses seem to play extremely long, until you realise that they are all measured in metres.  I took me about 3 days to figure that one out.......

[A_Clay_Man]

Spyglass Hill always seemed to play longer. It was a combination of all the factors you mention plus one more. Extra gravity.

[Brent Hutto]

In my limited experience Pasatiempo is the longest-player course that the scorecard would indicate is "not a long course".

Then again, the University Club club with which you are familiar plays pretty long for the reasons you mention. Several siginificantly uphill approach shots and generally soft fairway conditions.

[Tom Jefferson]

In my golf history, the Olympic Club Lakeside course always seemed to play looonnnggggg for the yardage....one round there when it seemed I was hitting it on the screws, it was fairway wood after fairway wood into the greens!  At 6777 yards, Ben Hogan called it "the longest short course in the world", or words to that effect.

More recently in my golf travels, and right here on the Oregon coast, Sandpines seems to play really long to me.  The turf always was deep and wet.  That might change with now that a new owner and superintendent are in place.

Tom

[John_Lovito]

Montclair Golf Club in NJ.

[Kyle Harris]

Rolling Green and Huntingdon Valley in the Philly area. Lulu as well.

In any sort of wind: PSU White
Beechtree felt longer than the card yardage.

[John Shimp]

I had Palmetto GC in mind.  I played there last Friday and
was surprised at what I was hitting into some holes after
good drives for me.  At Palmetto I think the "extra" length is a result of a few factors.  On holes like 13, a 417 Par 4 that plays like its 450 yds, its mostly just a big uphill slog.  On holes like 2, 4, and 17 there is a break or drop in the fairway that prevents the ball from just rolling and rolling.  A long hitter won't hit driver on these holes.  On a few other holes 3, 15, 18 enough precision is needed into the green (3) or off the tee to cause you not to just swing away on your approach or tee shot.  Finally at around 6400 yd par 71, there are several very short holes for their respective pars including
2 par 4's under 300yds and 2 of 3 par 5's below 500 yards -- balanced by some long par 4's.

[Jim Franklin]

Baltimore Country Club as it is a par 70 and there are a lot of uphill approach shots.

[Joe Hancock]

I think the Mines GC may fit into this category. In particular, there are some landing areas that will kill, or even reject tee shots if not properly placed. One may end up with uphill second shots that require additional clubbage to go along with that. Which leaves us thinking "6800 or so from the back...no problem!"

Joe

[Dan_Callahan]

Longmeadow CC plays much longer than its yardage. Only two par 5s (one which isn't reachable), and two very short par 3s mean most of the yardage is in the par 4s. It seems as if every par 4 has hills and valleys that bring a running tee shot to an abrupt halt, leaving lots of long-iron approaches.

[Tyler Kearns]

I agree with Brent regarding Pasatiempo. For a course that is somewhere between 6400-6500 yards, it plays much longer and is definitely no pushover. The deception lies in uphill landing areas which greatly limit the amount of roll the ball receives. I believe this is true of holes #6, 7, 9, 10 (?), 11, 16, 17.

TK

[Peter_Herreid]

As Tom J mentioned above, Olympic-Lake has to be the poster child for this, especially when it has very few, if any, crossing hazards to be negotiated that might rein in driving distances, etc...

When played from the proper tee locations, it seems to surprise folks how often they are playing much longer clubs into the greens, even on the few that are not so elevated.

Who knows what the game might be like in 2012, but this still seemed to be the case for the pros in 1998...

[Sean Leary]

Peter,

Don't you feel like many of the courses somewhat near the coast from San Fran north to the NW tend to play longer than other parts of the country?  Maybe it is the heavy air, maybe the often damp conditions, but it seems like whenever I travel, I seem to hit the ball quite a bit farther than I do around here, even in summertime..

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I agree about Olympic Lake.  In the UK Sandiway always requires several more clubs into most of the greens than the yardage would indicate.  It's a 6400-yard  par 70 and is reckoned to be the hardest course in Cheshire on which to play to your handicap after Royal Liverpool.

[TEPaul]

My course, GMGC, is that way, as are so many Ross courses with his theme of high tees into valley and then up to the elevation incline of the natural topography to raised greens. On the card GMGC used to be less than 6300 yards but because of the drives into valley where the upslopes tend to kill roll and the prevalence of raised greens the course always plays about 300 yards longer than that. Not just that but I've seen so many good players stand in the fairway, calculate the yardage to the center of the greens, hit good shots and the shots they wanted to hit only to come up short. Obviously they fail to properly calculate the added effective playing yardage for the increased elevations to the greens.

No hole I know of is more that way with its approach shot than the 2nd at PVGC. It's remarkably deceptive that way.

[mike_malone]

 The 1976 U.S.Women's Open was at Rolling Green. I understand the course played at around 6000 yards. This was among the shortest for the women. The over par result including the playoff is  among the highest in modern history for the women.


   A few years ago I ran into Judy Rankin at a nearby Pro event she was covering for ESPN. I asked her if she recalled playing in that Open.

  She said " The longest short course I ever played."

[michael_j_fay]

Palma Ceia in Tampa is about 6200 and yet it seemrd that every 350 yards par four took five or six iron to get home.

I agree with Longmeadow, along with the two short threes there are a couple of short fours and one short five.

For length in the Northeast, Wannamoisett at 6685, par 69 will give you all you handle.

[Joe Hancock]

To generalize?:

cold, wet, windy coastal courses.

This includes all of northern california and the monterey peninsula.  NoCal has always been the longest.  

When I lived in Denver I used a kind of formula to figure out how to play at altitudes higher than Denver and lower, too.  Coastal NoCal was (and is!) always a full 2.5 clubs from the Denver reference due to the above-mentioned factors.

Courses in this mold are 0.5-10. clubs from just normal sea level (0-800 ft) courses.

Redanman,

I was going to ask where the deception is in your list of factors. As I gave it more thought, I realized everything that makes a course play longer, deceptive or not, can be figured out without too much analysis. Carry on.

Joe

[Jim Sweeney]

I agree with Olympic. Damp atmosphere really limits ball flight. I recall in the '81 Amateur noone could consistently exceed 250 yard on the range.

I have to mention Waterbury in Connecticut. A Ross of 6350 yds. with one par five of 485. Eight par fours have tee up hill or into the hill tee shots. Eight par fours have uphill approaches. Two par threes exceed 220 yards.

I understand the club has added new back tees to several holes to restore the effect of al those uphill tee shots.

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