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TEPaul

Committee educational reading material?
« on: December 17, 2002, 01:28:09 PM »
I'm in the process of trying to convince my club to get members of say the Golf and Green Committees to maybe even be required to do a bit of educational reading on architecture.

I'd suggest no more than maybe two books for the committee people--two for each that is. My basic proposal is if they're sitting on these committees they have a responsibility to understand some of the principles and ramifications of architecture and specifically classic architecture (Ross 1919).

Which books would best serve this purpose? I was thinking first of Doak's "Anatomy of a Golf Course" as it's concise, not overly complex and it covers all the basic points of architecture and related matters well. I'd also say one that's broad and general (like Doak's) and one that's more in depth maybe.

The problem with a lot of architectural books is they sometimes go over the exact same material and I don't want that. Just two good ones that're as different as they could be. They would need to concentrate on a course like mine though. I don't think we want to put any modern architectural ideas in our committee people's heads yet.

What would you recommend? Has any other club proposed this for their committee people?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2002, 01:40:39 PM »
Tom Paul:

It's hard not to recommend one of the classics, but they might be too much. How about Paul Daley's latest book?

It might be a quick way to dive into the subject and encourage further reading.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Chris_Clouser

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2002, 02:13:57 PM »
Doak's book is an excellent choice.

I would also recommend a copy of Master of the Links which was compiled by Geoff Shackelford.  

That way you have a modern perspective and also allow them to sample some of the golden agers like CB, Mackenzie and Flynn.  They were the two books that really started to take my understanding of architecture to a different level and made me want to learn more.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2002, 02:17:18 PM »
TE,
You, a member sensitive to the architecture, probably know the best path for your course to travel down. Why not excerpt and attribute pertinent materials from various authors and compile them into a manuscript of reasonable length and readability? Granted, it means more work for you but it serves your purpose more directly and the attributions may encourage further study on their part.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2002, 02:33:45 PM »
Isn't it in "The Spirit of St. Andrews" where Dr. M. talks about the dunderheads who sit on green committees and make all of the wrong decisions?

I'd have 'em read that. Might inspire a bit of humility -- always a good thing, in my ... well ... opinion.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
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Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2002, 02:43:32 PM »
Master's of the Links
Driving the Green

Both cover the process of getting a course out of the ground.  Both are filled with warnings.  Driving the Green covers the modern making of courses and the potential pitfalls and compliments some of the articles in Geoff's book.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bradley Anderson

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2002, 02:43:51 PM »
Golf Has Never Failed Me by Ross seems like a great book.

Ross writes in a very friendly and conversational style.

It is a quick read, and it touches on some very important points. It also allows for some broad application.

And it has a couple of good stingers aimed at the carping critics.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2002, 04:45:11 PM »
I'd fudge the original mission of suggesting only 2 books and suggest the trilogy of books compiling Tillie's golf writings and business correspondence and displaying old photos of his works, by Treewolf Productions (Richard and Stuart Wolffe and Robert Trebus).

I'd count the trilogy as one book. ;)    "The Course Beautiful"; "Gleanings from The Wayside"; "Reminiscences Of The Links", are good examples of educational reading material for committees because they come mostly from the head of a master archie of the golden age.  Much of the writings are actual correspondence between Tillie and various clubs around the country and the letters discuss some of the age-old issues of golf club organization and committee involvment in their courses architecture at the highest level.  It gets them thinking about remodelling VS restoration concepts and the wisdom in each approach much through Tillies eyes.  It is also a method to stimulate the imagination of the committee person to get them to hear the voice of Tillie in a way that I found exciting due to the distinctive language Tillie used that is so foreign to our modern vernacular.  As one reads the letters and such of Tillie, you can indeed feel as if Tillie is speaking directly to you, and that may be inspriational to the begining committee member who has not caught the fever of GCA just yet.

The whole process that Treewolf Productions used to compile the material is a good model for the committees to follow because the work effort by Treewolf is the best collaboration of a group towards fulfilling a successful project.  It sets the right tone for how and why committees should work towards a meaningful mission of preserving/maintaining/restoring and understanding the best of the best in golf course design.  And, the trilogy introduces the committees to the notion of the Tillinghast Society as another model group to emulate for preserving the spirit and authenticity as much as possible of a great golden age architect.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2002, 06:08:59 PM »
Why not make a cliff notes version of GCA. Using some exerts from the above sited books?  Since it will be educational and not for profit, copyright infrigment shouldn't be an issue. I would encourage the use of lots of pictures to illustrate your well developed points.

I just think that anyone who is asked to read a couple of books will revert back to their school days and blow it off or at least not do it in a timely enough fashion. :'(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2002, 06:49:27 PM »
;D

Why not something extremely visual, not a coloring book, but as you have advised, something that shows what could be attained with a little effort.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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The voice of Inverness"

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2002, 07:57:27 PM »
Tom:

Have them read the brochure that I posted from Beverly CC when we educated the membership on our restoration plans.

It's in the archives here! :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2002, 08:23:20 PM »
TEP, at the risk of self-promotion, I'd also suggest they read chapters 7-8-9 of my Ross biography where I talk about the elements of a Ross course, the whole debate about restoration, and finally the example of a detailed analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of one club about to undergo restoration, Hyde Park G&CC in Cincinnati.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2002, 08:30:40 PM »
Brad:

You're so right about that. Those chapters are really excellent and practically tailor made, it would seem, for just the thing I'm thinking of.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2002, 08:47:30 PM »
"Masters of the Links" is a great choice too and GeoffShac says it was basically written for just this kind of use.

What do you all think, should I maybe go full boat here and recommend too that all committee people must take exams,  midterms, finals and even pop quizes? Should I even recommend SATs for positions on committees or even PSATs for any member's right to open their mouthes to make a remark about the golf course? Should guests be asked to take a multiple choice quiz and if they fail it told to put their own damn bag back in their car and get the hell out of here?

Or do you think I should go much farther and make some really serious educational recommendations, like maybe a minimum of an hour a day on Golfclubatlas.com?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2002, 09:10:59 PM »
An hour a day on GCA? That will guarantee they never consider the idea of a restoration ever again. I'd suggest bringing in some speakers and accompanying that with a very limited reading list - chapters, articles. Plus take them on a road trip to see Aronomink, Skokie, Beverly, Augusta CC, Fenway, White Bear Yacht Club, Plainfield, Lake Sunapee, Mountain Lake, Timuquana, Somerset Hills.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2002, 09:26:35 PM »
If you can find me some extremely fast speakers--their attention span is 4 1/4 minutes max! Then their eyes start to glaze over. At least snoring is better than hollering.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff Mingay

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2002, 07:25:59 AM »
One of the intentions of putting together the book I'm presently working on for John Wiley & Sons is to assist with educating golfers, particularly Green committee and Board members, but also superintendents, and perhaps even some golf architects (!), about classic golf architecture as it relates to their home courses.  

Tenatively titled, The Art of Classic Golf Course Restoration, the book will explain, in layman's terms, how a typical golf course negatively evolves as it ages, why those aged courses should be re-injected with strategy and character based on classic design principles and aesthetics, and in general terms, using practical examples, how to do it.

Contributors include:

--Brad Klein
--Geoff Shackelford
--Dan Wexler
--Dave Wilber
--Ron Prichard
--Gil Hanse
--Rodney Hine
--Ron Forse
--Jim Nagle
--Bobby Weed
--Tom Doak
--Mike DeVries
--Brian Silva, and others

Think of the book as a "Green committee manual" of sorts! Look for it early in 2004...  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2002, 08:11:58 AM »
While I applaud the goal of educating Greens' Committee members in the priciples of GCA, there is an underlying danger in that it implies that such committees should play an active role in architectural change.  Except in extreme circumstances the principal role of such committees should be to assist their staffs in obtaining the proper "maintenance meld" and otherwise keeping the members hands off the golf course.  Most of the harm to courses has been done by well meaning committees seeking to change courses through plantings, remodellings etc.  One might assume that "better" educated committees would make fewer "mistakes", but it is possible that they might be emboldened to make more changes.  Definition of the role of the committee is at least as important as the knowledge of the members particularly at clubs where chairmen and commitees change on a regular basis.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Craig Disher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2002, 09:09:50 AM »
TEP,
The past couple of weeks, I've been trying to do much the same thiing - compile a collection of essays, chapters from books, even threads from GCA, that will help our greens committee members understand golf architecture and in our case, essential elements of classic design and why they are still of value today.

Our committee members are busy guys and I thought that suggesting that they read even one book would mean that they would read nothing. Slicing up the information into pieces that can be read a little at a time seemed a better approach.

Two great sources are Masters of the Links and The Course Beautiful. There's even a Flynn essay in MotL written shortly after his involvement at our club that might explain why his design was not completed. Chapter 8 of Klein's book on Ross is also essential. There's a section subheaded "Why Even Bother" that is as clear and concise an explanation of restoration issues that I've read.

Thanks to all who have contributed on this thread. It's a big help.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2002, 09:27:32 AM »
I hate to be a downer in this Holiday season,but as a person who brought material to a green cmte. for their reading i found that most of the people did not bother to read it because they thought it was supporting my "agenda"
 I want to make a connection between this question and the "revolution "thread.People who do not appreciate art think that all ideas are "political',i.e,stated to gain an advantage.
  If i suggest Ron Forse's excellent article in "Masters of the Links"on trees,the majority thinks i am just trying to "push"my idea that we need to address our tree issue.
 But i see it as a near perfect presentation on an a concern that i have-"what should be the role of trees on our course?"


   I do not think i have an agenda.I think i have been either "blessed"or"cursed" with an artistic sense of what Flynn intended on this particular piece of land.
Those who see things as a contest rarely  see reading material as a happy coincidence that someone has expressed themselves on an issue,but rather as a threat to their views.
 I hestitate to recommend that our cmte.hear from someone who is writing a book on Flynn and is a member of the club!!!
Why?Because i think you get few chances to do this and it should be done when the audience is most receptive.What a shame.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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wsmorrison

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2002, 09:34:33 AM »
Jeff Mingay,
Your book sounds excellent and will be essential to clubs of all lineages.
Tom P,
I think as a beginning guide, "Some essays on golf-architecture" by Colt, Alison, and others is a nice primer on the subjects that interest and involve green committees.  Hawtree and Cornish wrote excellent Introduction and Foreward as well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2002, 09:44:28 AM »
SL:

It's true what you say about committee's inclination to change things but you must remember we are in the midst of a restoration which is being implimented off a carefully crafted Master Plan (Hanse). The implimentation itself needs the architectural education of the committees but everyone seems to understand that once done and implimented the Master Plan then becomes the flipside of defending in the future the idea of architectural tampering. The "maintenance" side, hopefully framed in an "ideal maintenance meld" (considering all things like weather conditons) would be ongoing, for sure, but better defined and understood than in the past.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2002, 10:39:08 AM »
I should tell you all where GMGC is right now. We've created our Master Plan (with Gil Hanse). It's been approved by the membership (that whole process took 2 1/2 years) about a year ago. We've now completed the first phase of a two phase restoration of the course (and it appears to be popular although it has not been "in play" yet).

Implimentation in the next phase and the future of the course architecturally and particularly how the future maintenance practices "meld" into our restoration is the concern now and where education will help.

Wayne et al:

I've gotten pretty good over these last few years at recognizing and countering various arguments. The tree situation is always the first at my type of course and that argument is actually quite easy to counter (with our four step analysis).

The educational value now is as much to get the committees to understand that there really are some very important and necessary distinctions between an old style course, like ours, and some of the newer styles and concepts in architecture (the Modern Age). It's important to keep making that distinction (educationally) into the future or they'll just keep bringing those new style ideas back to the club.

The argument one hears all the time is; "Golf has changed, courses evolve into the future and they (we) must stay current". That's true in many ways but that quickly blurs those necessary and important distinctions I just mentioned if you're not careful.

In some cases I have even had people say to me in whole member forums; "Who cares about Donald Ross and what he thought, that was 80 years ago, this is now?"

That's tricky but I think many of us have gotten pretty good at pointing out the commonsense of much of what Ross and that era thought, conceived of and designed and it only takes pointing that out, in some detail, and what happened to much of it in the ensuing years. Many of us are quite lucky too that so many old style courses were corrupted in almost the exact same ways! A brief description of the last century's remarkable evolution of golf architecture and maintenance concepts from Golden Age through Depression and into the Modern Age and the interesting, consistent and often corrupting effects of that evolution really does quickly get their attention and even understanding, I find!

But the hardest question to answer is; "We like it the way it is, why ask us to change it?" A lady asked me that in a forum in the beginning of it all for us and I said: "Because you'll like it so much more when we restore it!"

I thought that was a great answer! But it turned out to be a disasterous answer and for almost everyone! Why? Because that lady and apparently no one else had any idea exactly what I was talking about.

And so that's where this educational material comes into it. With that they'll understand what we're talking about in better detail and what those necessary distinctions (between other styles and eras) are aboutl.

So, Wayne, the real reason I look for books that are current, like Doak's, GeoffShac's and Brad Klein's is just because they ARE current! If I supplied them first with writing like Colt, Alison, or even Donald Ross's "Golf Has Never Failed Me" they might say to me, because they already have; "That was then this is now..." type remarks and we don't need that.

Perhaps that kind of writing could come later when they read what's current and how well it melds into what was written long ago, DESPITE (or maybe because of) all that has happened in the ensuing decades.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2002, 10:56:44 AM »
Tom; as you know (without too much detail) we just completed a "sympathetic renovation" at Briarwood.  I agree that circumstances change when you are implementing a master plan and I look forward to learning about the results.  In such cases the educational process should be geared to creating an understanding and appreciation of the master plan and should continue so as to allow preservation of the benefits against proposed future "improvements'.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ronan_Branigan

Re: Committee educational reading material?
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2002, 11:29:30 AM »
Tom

One of the finest books that I have read recently is Geoff Shackelford's 'The Art of Golf Design'. It leaves you with plenty of food for thought and talks about the positives of the Golden Age and the negatives of the 50's onwards. So if you are starting a restoration on your home course I think this would be an invaluable read for the committee members.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »