"Dream Come True"

[jg7236]

Good Evening To All:

Last Thursday my father suprised me with a one week trip to Scotland.  This is a dream come true,  I am never been so suprised and happy in my entire life.  My father hasn't purchased the golf package yet.  He wants me to do some research on which company we should use to purchase our trip.  I was wondering if any of you could help me get in touch with the right golf travel companies? I want a travel package that includes hotel, golf, air, food, and ground transportation. Also if we wish to only golf 4 days of the week vacation, which couses are a must?  A must is of course the Old Course At St Andrews and staying at Rusacks.  Also which pubs should we hit?  When is the best time to go on our trip to Scotland?

Thanks again and I can't wait to hear what you all think.

Cheers,

John

[JESII]

John,

Any advice I might have (minimal) will be far overshadowed through the life of this thread so I'll leave it at this, have the time of your life! And if you end up deciding to add friends to your trip, make sure you end up in an odd number (as golf foursomes go) so as to meet more people.

Lucky SOB!

[Bill Gayne]

Congratulations and have fun.

On my very limited St. Andrews experience, I would say the Jigger Inn and Dunvagen.

[Bill Weber]

http://www.drumgolf.com/
Talk to Gordon Adam
 I have used them in the past and they are located in St Andrews.
Good to work with. Good Luck
I would avoid Rusacks Too much for so little in spite of the location

[Sean_A]

John

If you are only going for a week and St. Andrews is a must, then I would suggest staying there for the entire week or perhaps slipping away to North Berwick for a night or two (as you will probably fly to Edinburgh anyway).  

Four courses are TOC, Kingsbarns, Muirfield and North Berwick.  If you stay in St. Andrews; TOC, Kingsbarns, Elie and probably Gleneagles (either course works) or Carnoustie (both perhaps an hour drive from St. Andrews).  

It sounds like you are going top end.  Stay at The Greywalls in Gullane if you don't mind the cash outlay.  Book your tee time(s) now for Muirfield.  

Spend a night in Edinburgh with a spare day.  It is a cracking city.  

Ciao

Sean

[cary lichtenstein]

My favorite course in Scotland after St. Andrews is Royal Dornock. It was home to Donald Ross and his father who was both the pro and superintendent.

[Matthew Schulte]

John:

I would generally agree with Sean's four courses (North Berwick, Muirfield, TOC, and Kingsbarns).  I would probably drop Kingsbarns for Carnoustie, Dornoch or try to Ballot onto the Old Course for a second round.  North Berwick is a perfect introduction to golf in Scotland so you might want to play it first.

If you aren't opposed to a three to four hour drive, each way, I agree with Cary's suggestion about Royal Dornoch.  Everyone should experience Dornoch once, especially when the gorse is in bloom in the spring or fall.


Sean:

I was under the impression that Greywalls no longer "assists" in getting times at Muirfield.  Is that correct?

[Jason Topp]

John - congrats!  My most important piece of advice is to be very sure of the terms you are getting with respect to access to the old course.  Many travel companies simply put you on the ballot each day and may or may not actually get you on the course.  Both times I have gone, I have felt seriously misled by the brochures and travel information.  You may be better off making arrangements for the trip yourself.

The last time I checked (several years ago) the only companies that actually had access to tee times were Perry Golf and the St. Andrews Links Trust.  Otherwise, the most likely methods for getting access are the ballot or by getting to the starters shack early in the morning (like 4:30), and putting your name on a list to fill groups that have less than four people.  In addition, George Peper wrote a great column in the magazine he now writes for regarding the 18 ways to get on the old course.

I echo the idea of staying in St. Andrews the whole week.  

All of the suggested courses are worth the effort.  For me, I think back to my round at North Berwick as one of the most enjoyable of my life.  For a combination of setting, architectural features, history and playability it was by far my biggest surprise.  

[Sean_A]

Matthew

As far as I know, one has to go directly to Muirfield to secure a tee time.  

I think the rules have changed for TOC.  Maybe this September (or it could be next year) TOC starts to take bookings for next year.  I believe the waitlist for two years on was too much a hassle for The Links Trust.  They don't need to have a waitlist to fill their books.  Check out the website.  

I agree with Jason in that if you want an exact itinerary, book it yourself.

Ciao

Sean

[Jeff_Mingay]

Definitely have a few pints (Carlsberg Extra Cold!) at The Jigger Inn, between the Road hole and the Old Course Hotel. I think it's the best pub in St. Andrews.

And, as redanman says, talk to Ben Dewar at GolfTI - www.golfti.com

[Ken Fry]

John,

Friends have used Jerry Quinlan's Celtic Golf outfit with great success.

Their website is www.celticgolf.com

Ken

[Bill_McBride]

Probably the best way to insure you get in a round or more on the Old Course is to go by yourself and figure on showing up at 6:30 a.m. at the starter shack.  You will definitely get on.

With two or more, stay in St Andrews and get on the ballot everyday.  If you don't make it, the other courses are supposed to be almost as much fun, and are quite accessible.  All the heavy demand is on the Old.  

And Crail, Leven, Lundin, Ladybank, what have I missed?  If you are just going for a week, St Andrews is the place.  I have enjoyed the Dunvegan, both hotel and pub, but there are many different lodging opportunities.

Lots of golf, lots of Bellhaven's Best and single malt, friendly Scots, nothing finer.

[ForkaB]

John

With only a week to stay and maybe only 4 days for golf, do not even THINK of venturing far from St. Andrews.  Maybe a round at Carnoustie or Kingsbarns or Crail or Elie, but spend most of your golfing time on the Old and then the Old, the Old, the New, the Eden and the Jubilee, in that order. Do see Edinburgh, on the way in or out, and maybe play North Berwick then if you have the time, but save trips to Aberdeen, Dornoch and Prestwick for your next trip.

With such a limited intinerary, you could probably do it yourself cheaper, but if you want security and guaranteed tee times, go with a tour operator.

Regardless, enjoy!

[Forrest Richardson]

John,

If the truth be known, John, we all got together are pooled some funds to get you out of the country for a few weeks.

[jg7236]

Thanks a lot guys.

Forrrest, don't quite understand what you are talking about, maybe you had a few too many cocktails this morning.

[michael_j_fay]

John:

A good deal of planning can be done on the web. A week is not a great deal of time but if you are willing you can get in a lot of golf.

As for accomodations B&B's are plentiful nearly everywhere and usually quite reasonable and comfortable.

As for where you play, you really have to go out of your way to find a bad course. I've played over 50 courses in Scotland and haven't had a negative experience yet.

Personally I love the East Lothian Peninsula and the Dornoch area but if you go to St. Andrews make sure you see the Balcomie Course at Crail.

If you need some pointers on where to stay send me an email at fay.m@comcast.net.

[THuckaby2]

JG - run, do not walk, to a telephone and call WIDE WORLD OF GOLF.  Ask for Bill Hogan.  He's President/owner of the company and a great bloak and long-time friend.  Tell him I said to call.  He'll set you up and get you times on TOC, hell whatever you want.  I'd highly recommend the day at Muirfield also... the others have all been mentioned.  Hogan can make it all happen.

It might not be the cheapest way to go... but this is not a time to skimp.

http://www.wideworldofgolf.com/

TH

[Mike Benham]

With a topic like this, you will get information overload ...

I prefer the do-it-yourself route, of course, TOC is about the only course that using a tour service will guarantee you a tee time.  That being said, depending on when you go, it shouldn't be difficult to get a game.  All of the residences in St. Andrews will get you on the ballot for the day of your choice.

The one thing that I suggest is to call or email the various clubs to find out their schedules.  It will help you decide when you should go (specifically with TOC as there is a Spring Meeting of the R&A which closes TOC for 3 or 4 days).  Likewise, other clubs don't open for guest play until certain dates each year.

In St. Andrews, I prefer the Shandon House, it's around the corner from the Dunveegan but in a quiet alley.

Here is a website I used, it also has info, maps to calculate driving times UK Golf Guide

And you must try Belhaven Best when in East Lothian

[THuckaby2]

Mr. Benham's suggestions are all wise.

My only thought re using a tour operator is it does make things completely foolproof, and saves you all the calls and emails.  But most importantly, do you really want to take ANY chances re The Old Course, for this once in a lifetime trip?  Sure, it USUALLY works out re the ballot - but there is the chance that it might not.  And if you do want to play Muirfield, well lots of luck doing it yourself - it's likely sold out already for all of 2006.  Guys like Hogan have ways of making things happen that you won't be able to yourself.  

BTW, I've done it both ways.  Heck, you can't go WRONG however you do this.  There's just an easy way and a hard way...

 

[jg7236]

Thank you so much Tom!

[Mickey Boland]

Matthew

As far as I know, one has to go directly to Muirfield to secure a tee time.  

I think the rules have changed for TOC.  Maybe this September (or it could be next year) TOC starts to take bookings for next year.  I believe the waitlist for two years on was too much a hassle for The Links Trust.  They don't need to have a waitlist to fill their books.  Check out the website.  

I agree with Jason in that if you want an exact itinerary, book it yourself.

Ciao

Sean

For what it's worth, I'm in the process of booking my own trip to Scotland next year.  Muirfield has their own website that allows online bookings out to 15 months in advance.  Booking period for TOC for 2006 opened on September 7th this year.  I sent in my Application for Advance Reservation (tee time to you and me) on that date.  Supposed to hear back from them within 4 weeks.  

[THuckaby2]

Well I'll be.

Mickey's right - check out this website re Muirfield:

http://www.muirfield.org.uk/index.cfm?action=visitorTeeTimes

That's certainly new in the last year, or since I've gone over.

So maybe you might not need my friend Hogan after all?

 

Of course the advantage remains convenience - trying to slot all you want to do into the short number of days you have will be difficult on your own - but at least access to Muirfield has been made easier.

Which to me is a very good thing.

 

[Sean_A]

Huckster

I have been organizing trips to Scotland and Ireland every year for 15 years.  In fact, next year is the first time we will play south of the wall.  It has taken quite a bit to convince these guys that there is better value in England/Wales.  Perhaps the £120 green fee this year at Muirfield convinced them!  My experience is that if one starts the legwork far enough in advance (for Muirfield that was June!), getting the times is not a problem.  What I find to be a problem is desireable hotels in good locations at reasonable rates that will take at least 12 players (this rules out B&Bs which I think are the way to go with smaller parties).  

When I first started doing this, I could book large parties at top courses in March to play in June and TOC was expensive at £60.  Those were the days.  

Ciao

Sean

[THuckaby2]

Sean:

I too have been organizing trips to the UK, Ireland, and other places, every couple years for 18 years now.  So while you have me in volume I have you in tenure.  Neener neener neener.  

And at least for us, as the years have gone by and financial security has increased, value has become less of the driving factor.  That being said, none of my guys still is in the mood for throwing away money, and the vast increase in prices over the years has been rather disconcerting.

High prices just don't stop us, that's all.  They get us good and mad, but they don't make us stay home... or look for other better-priced venues.

Not when it comes to Scotland and Ireland anyway.  THAT is where the guys want to go.  Oh I know they'd have a great time in Wales and England - in fact some of us have spent some time there - but for the big group?

At least for how they think, it's not the real thing.

But we have now done Scotland and Ireland several times, so new frontiers are a draw... maybe I can convince them for England/Wales.  It's just that now that they've seen the pics from the new courses in New Zealand/Australia/Tasmania... well if we are gonna shoot the wad again and try once again to convince the wives to let us go... it ain't gonna be for any "approximation".  Methinks if a big trip is gonna happen, it's gonna be down under.  

In any case, right you are about B&B's, and the legwork, in the UK/Ireland.  As I said, Murifield is likely already booked for damn near all of 2006.  So yes, it is always wise to plan ahead.

Only if you don't/can't/won't... well... guys like my friend Hogan have ways of making things happen that ordinary Joes cannot.  It's called connections.

TH

[Sean_A]

Huckleberry

I know what you mean about where guys WANT to go.  I spose I am getting a bit bored of the same tracks.  I know what to expect.  That is why playing a course like Perranporth is such a pleasure.  I can equate this type of pleasure to a treasure hunt as a kid.  Every clue leads to the unknown.  A fantastic feeling.  However, I understand that it is very different if one is coming from overseas.  It is a real adventure everytime.  

Guys like Hogan most likely buy block tee times.  I would be very surprised if Muirfield doesn't already have the money in the bank from tour groups that guarantee tee times.  The same for TOC.

Ciao

Sean