[Mike Hendren]

Hillbilly Pete & Mike,

Oddly, I liked the left-hand green better on the 12th hole at WWPB.  Classic back to front tilt in a natural saddle.  A rare visual breather from the steroidal surrounds.

Mike

[Tom_Doak]

Pete:

Yep, that's why before Sand Hills was built, Carmel Valley Ranch was considered the best modern golf course in America.  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

fun is fun and N Regan's work is great fun. Mike, in all due respect  4 is a great great hole as it is and 5 has great tee options already. There are more golf holes out there than any place on earth except maybe other sets of dunes in the area. The only thing I would change is my game when playing into the wind.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tiger,

While I like Sand Hills a great deal, I don't share your views regarding # 4.

I think a lower green would have been more appealing.
I'm not enamored with the highly constructed 4th green in comparison with all of the other greens.

The higher, constructed green, certainly makes the hole harder, placing a premium on the approach, and a substantial premium on recoveries.

Neil Regan,

That's certainly a neat bit of artwork.

In fact, the first thing that hit me was the dual green concept on the 9th hole at Pacific Dunes.

It's one of the many features that make that course unique.
And, in the context of the dual tees on # 10 at Pacific Dunes and their relationship to the green used on the previous hole, I sort of like the notion of a green to the left of the huge bunker on # 4 and the use of the tee on 5.

I wonder how many who have played Sand Hills walked back to the top of the dune behind the current 17th tee to look at a tee sight that transformed the cute little 17th hole into a rather diabolical par 3.

The only thing I found disturbing about the 17th green was the large pebble that deflected Ran's ball, as it was traveling at the speed of light, back on line and into the hole, which needed substantial repair by virtue of the damage done by a ball that hits the hole at 186,000 miles per second.

TEPaul,

The reason I was green was from the dye from all of the cash that Ran, Tom Huckaby and others paid to me while at Wild Horse and Sand Hills.  It just naturally rubbed off.

I believe we also felt that the 4th and 15th greens had a similar feel as one approached them even though # 4 was elevated higher and more of # 15 was hidden by the fronting dune.

Did you notice that Ran thought he was in Bermuda and thus he wore calf high socks, or were those shin guards he wore to ward off the snakes as he looked for his ball in the high rough ?

[TEPaul]

Ran Morrissett:

I feel credit should be given when it's due. The fact is your instant brainstorm that that portion of the 14th and 15th fairways at SH should be melded together is brilliant---and Neil's fantastic photo work-up proves it. As to why you had that brain-storm, I don't think delving into that is particularly useful at this point. The fact that you hacked the ball through the rough on the entire right side of #14 with your hickories against Pat Mucci should be of no real consequence at this point or in the future. It's true that brilliant ideas in golf architecture get inspired for the oddest reasons and at the most unlikely times.

And also in the future I promise I will take some of these architectural brainstorms you have more seriously. I promise to do that if you'll promise to do something for me if you have them while I'm around. What I would ask you to do is to present them to me somewhat less dramatically than you generally do. Here are the three examples I remember in chronological order;

When we were walking Pacific Dunes and when we arrived on the first part of the 15th hole you exclaimed in a screeching and horrifed voice;

"Is this not the worst designed first half of an otherwise good par 5 in the history of golf architecture? I mean just look at this drive area, it's about 80 yards wide and there's nothing at all called for to do in this area. One can hit the ball anywhere with total impunity!"

And then when we arrived at the par 3 17th, a hole that looks like a redan (even if Tom Doak clearly does not like to be seen to closely copy redans) you said;

"Just look at this hole! He completely destroyed an otherwise great redan by failing to put a redan bunker on the right (or back) side!"

And then while on #14 and #15 SH you said;

"Do you think I should update the write-up on GCA of SH by calling Bill Coore and asking him if he's aware he completely destroyed an otherwise world-class golf course by failing to meld this area of rough between #14 and #15 into fairway?"

In review;

Your remarks on #15 Pac Dunes's tee shot area showed a sudden obtuseness beyond comprehension, as did your remarks two holes later about #17. But your brainstorm on #14/#15 SH is absolutely brilliant, and I should tell you that here and now.

Oh, I forgot. You also said that the irrigation box or whatever it is quite far out in the left rough on #16  Pac Dunes should be moved and fairway should be extended to the left into that area because that would be a high risk drive that sets up the ideal approach angle into that green. That is a potentially brilliant brainstorm but I'm still reviewing that one.

When you have these instant architectural brainstorms just try to tone down the histrionics a bit when you mention them to me, if you wouldn't mind, of course.

[A_Clay_Man]

Haven't read all the posts on this, so I hope no one has sad o this already...

The fourth green sets up the seventh, doesn't it?
 Having a lower green there, would be out of character for the golf course. Varietal, yes, good No.

As for building a second green ala Pine Valley.... Interesting how only those who frequent PV have agreed about an alternative green.

Are they trying to make Crump's mistakes, universely accepted?

[TEPaul]

Adam:

Believe me the two alternate green holes at PVGC work just fine. At this point if either one of the alternates on #8 or #9 were removed it'd make the holes look like a person with half a head!  

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