[Evan_Green]

I am curious to hear folks thoughts about the following:

Burning Tree
Columbia CC
Chevy Chase CC
Bethesda CC

Which is the best of the bunch?

Any insight would be helpful.

Many Thanks

[Andy Hughes]

Evan,

Columbia is very, very good.  Impressive land movement, and a nice variety of holes.

Andy

[Bill Gayne]

I'd second Columbia.

[wsmorrison]

I've seen Congressional, Burning Tree, Columbia, Manor, Washington Golf and CC and Rock Creek Park.  I'll take Columbia but I'd add WGCC to the list, it is a very nice golf course with great topography.

[Jimmy Muratt]

Four Streams is another fine course just outside the DC area in Maryland.  If unfamiliar with it, it's a Steve Smyers course and has terrific greens and bunkering.  It's one of the stronger tests of golf in the DC area as well.

[Jason Mandel]

I've played Bethesda, Chevy and Burning Tree.

From the sense I get in the DC area, Columbia is prob the best of the bunch, but I sure love Chevy- alot.

Even if people say art hills ruined the place, i think what is on the ground now is a very good-great, and enjoyable golf course.

chevy probably has some of the fastest, trickiest greens ever to read.

jason

[Jerry Kluger]

Columbia is the best course of the group but if there are no females in your group, Burning Tree is the coolest experience.  All of the courses are fun and none would be a disappointing experience although a number of the courses in the area are very stressed as a result of the weather.  Congressional is clearly the class of the area and Four Streams is a good modern course.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I am curious to hear folks thoughts about the following:

Burning Tree
Columbia CC
Chevy Chase CC
Bethesda CC

Which is the best of the bunch?

Any insight would be helpful.

Many Thanks

Evan-

Burning Tree is wonderful.  Jerry is 100% spot-on.  Very special place.  It's a fun course, great atmosphere, total lack of pretense in the entire place.  Pro staff is very, very nice; among the best I've come across anywhere.  Total lack of 'attitude'.  

Golf course relatively short; maybe 6400 yards or so, overall small greens.  Not overly difficult, but the greens are very quick, and shortsiding oneself is suicide.  Most all holes set up for a cut.  Notice the holes, except #2, don't have fairway bunkers, for whatever reason.  Art Hills did a considerable amount of work there several years ago.
  The course was originally designed by Alison (even though people say MacKenzie)
The first 5 holes of the back nine were changed due to the addition of the Beltway.  

Columbia was very, very good as well.  Interesting mix of holes, fair amount of quirk thrown in as well.  Good routing and use of topography.  
Many uneven lies, I would say this is more of a "position" golf course than any of the others in the area due to the uneven topography.  Great greens and very tough to read and putt.  

Flynn redesigned the first two holes; Wayne could tell you more about it.  Course is Travis, with the Flynn additions to #1,2 and some Ault/Clark, I couldn't tell you what.  

I haven't played Chevy or Bethesda.  

I'm evenly split between Burning Tree and Columbia on which I'd rather play.  

[Andy Hughes]

Flynn redesigned the first two holes; Wayne could tell you more about it.  Course is Travis, with the Flynn additions to #1,2 and some Ault/Clark, I couldn't tell you what.  

Doug, do you happen to know what the story is with the right side of #2?  Did there used to be a line of bunkers running parallel to the fairway, or maybe in the fairway at some point?

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Flynn redesigned the first two holes; Wayne could tell you more about it.  Course is Travis, with the Flynn additions to #1,2 and some Ault/Clark, I couldn't tell you what.  

Doug, do you happen to know what the story is with the right side of #2?  Did there used to be a line of bunkers running parallel to the fairway, or maybe in the fairway at some point?

Andy-

  I'm not sure.  Wayne might know based on if he has anything from when Flynn was there.  Craig Disher would know better than I; I've been back in NJ   for a year now.    

  I didn't know anything about bunkers on #2.  It's a position hole--whatever gets you to the crest of the hill and a (relatively) flat lie for the downhill second over the small creek, to a small green.  

[wsmorrison]

Andy,

I haven't seen any evidence that there was a line of bunkers down the right side of the second hole.  As far as I know Flynn only redesigned the green on the second hole and a redesign of the first hole.  The second green has since been changed by mowing practices and redesign over the years.  There was an alternate hole, the 1937 aerial shows a fairway to the left of the current one.  There are traces of it to be seen today.

Columbia CC just contracted with an architect to do work there and he is very sympathetic to the architectural evolution at Columbia and wherever else he works.  

[Mark_Fine]

Guys,
What is amazing to me on many courses is the change that takes place (independent of the big noted changes).  A guy like Ross or Flynn comes in and changes a hole here and some bunkers there.  But in between the big boys doing their thing, all kinds of other stuff (sometimes even more significant) happens.  I'm sure many of you guys already know this but it is fascinating to study an old golf course and its evolution.  Corrnish and Whitten's book is great, but there is a lot of change missing on many of the courses listed (noting who did what and when).
Mark

[Jerry Kluger]

Played Belle Haven yesterday in Alexandria, VA, a stone's throw from Reagan National.  If you want to be near the airport and have access to all these courses you might as well play Belle Haven because it is just like Chevy Chase and Bethesda - Arthur Hills redo with pushed up greens, same basic bunkering, but very interesting green contours.  I'm not saying that anyone of them is bad but he uses the same theme over and over, and it is good and friendly for a members' course but doesn't make it very interesting - Woodmont in Rockville is the same on their North Course.

[Jerry Kluger]

I've enjoyed playing Four Streams and I hope that they are able to make it financially.  My only issues with the course are the 11th hole where you have a downhill lie to an uphill/elevated green, and the par 5 18th hole with the green just over a hill.  

[Jerry Kluger]

I would never use my skills to judge a hole but I have played the course a number of times as has a number of friends who are better skilled than I and they too have taken issue with those holes.

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

  Are there two nicer country clubs with really good golf couses closer together than Columbia and Chevy Chase? Both on Connecticut Ave. with their entrances no more than 4,500 feet apart.

  Play Columbia for your morning round. You'll need fresh legs for the hills and most people would say that it is a harder golf course. Take time to soak up some of the history of the club by veiwing the numerous photos in the club house and have lunch. Then head up the street.

   Make Chevy your afternoon round because it is a nicer walk and the course is somewhat less demanding. Chevy is gently rolling with nice views around the property from hole to hole. I think the front nine is harder than the back but the back nine holes are more interesting in some ways. Hopefully you'll crest the hill on #17 just as the late afternoon sun is turning a golden color. They view up to the club house from #17 at this time of day is one of the best in golf. After you finish walk over to the adirondak chairs behind the club house have a seat and order a cocktail. Enjoy the sunset.

[Craig Disher]

Columbia without question. It has the best topography and routing of the four you mentioned. Can't say too much favorable about Bethesda and although Chevy Chase has great atmosphere (mostly from the incredible amount of space they have and the beautiful clubhouse) the course has the feel of just another Arthur Hills design. Some of it works but anyone who loved the old course (pre Ault/Clark mods) couldn't be happy with the new version.

The 2nd at Columbia did have a pair of bunkers on the right side of the driving area which disappeared some time after 1950. It will be interesting to see what happens during the renovation.

[Andy Hughes]

Andy,
I haven't seen any evidence that there was a line of bunkers down the right side of the second hole.

I have no evidence either, but if you walk along the roughline as the fairway begins to descend, it feels like there was a series of 3-5 bunkers that have been wholly grassed over.  It kinda looks like it as well, but maybe its just a series of natural undulations.

Columbia CC just contracted with an architect to do work there and he is very sympathetic to the architectural evolution at Columbia and wherever else he works.

Wayne, being coy?  
Any ideas what the purpose of this new work is? I gather there's no point asking who the architect is yet?

[Andy Hughes]

The 2nd at Columbia did have a pair of bunkers on the right side of the driving area which disappeared some time after 1950. It will be interesting to see what happens during the renovation.

Aha.  Thanks Craig, I feel better!

[Craig Disher]

A lone bunker was also on the left side of the 2nd fairway but a tree planted during the 40s made it redundant and it too disappeared.  

Ault/Clark were very partial to mounding and I wonder if they had a role in replacing the bunkers with what's there now.

[wsmorrison]

Craig,

I only see a single bunker on the right in the 1937 aerial.  Do you have other photos?

[Craig Disher]

Wayne,
The 1937 aerial shows 3 fairway bunkers, one on the left and two on the right of the fairway. The left  bunker is considerably closer to the tee than the 2 on the right.

[Bill_McBride]

The topography of all of the D.C. region features a large number of ridges running through it.  As a result, most of the courses, including C.C. of Fairfax (VA) where I was a member, and Bethesda, Columbia, Washington Golf, all have blind tee shots over these ridges.  You wouldn't see many modern courses designed with this many blind tee shots but the classic-era courses there are very interesting.  I agree that Columbia is the best of the lot, not as long and demanding as Congressional but certainly more varied and quirky.

[wsmorrison]

Craig,

I must not be looking at the correct hole.  I tell you, there's one or two other holes that have some familiar looking bunkering.  We need to talk over the phone...I am disoriented, again  

[Craig Disher]

Wayne,
I'll call you later today.

Bill,
That's a good observation about the topography around DC. I have seen a lot of "renovation" plans for the older courses here and am pretty tired of seeing many architects suggest that the ridges should be shaved down to either make the "course more fair" or "create good sight lines."

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