Classic courses in the southeast (updated list)

[RE Blanks]

From looking at the top 100 state by state lists it would seem that the Southeast has very few classical designs.  i have compiled a list of the best classical designs each state has to offer.   What else belongs on the list?  I know very little about FL, MS and LA. Thanks

Alabama-
CC of Birmingham
CC of Mobile
Mountain Brook CC

Arkansas-
CC of Little Rock
Texarkana

Florida-
Seminole
Mountain Lake
Indian Creek
Palma Ceia
Hyde Park
Sara Bay
Timaquana
U of F
CC or Orlando
Lake Wales
Mission Inn

Georgia-
Sea Island
Lookout Mountain
Capital City
Druid Hills
Augusta CC
Athens CC
CC of Columbus
Augusta National
Idle Hour
Peachtree
East Lake
Forest Hills
Jekyll Island
Savannah GC

Kentucky-
Louisville CC
Lexington CC
Idle Hour

Louisiana -
Metairie CC

Mississippi-
Great Southern Golf Club

North Carolina-
Pinhurst
Grandfather
Pine Needles
Mid Pines
Old Town Club
Highlands CC
Roaring Gap
Forsyth CC
Biltmore Forest
Cape Fear
Lineville
Carolina G&C
Charlotte CC
Myers Park
Southern Pines

South Carolina-
Yeamans Hall
CC Charleston
Palmetto
Camden
Dunes GC

Tennessee-
Holston Hills
Memphis CC
Cherokee
Belle Meade
Johnson City CC

[Brad Tufts]

MS - Great Southern Golf Club, which may now be Katrina-altered, as it is loacted just across rte. 90 from the ocean in Gulfport, Miss.  It has a long history, and claims it was designed by Ross, even though the DRS does not confirm the claim, and there apparently is no real proof. (Any new info out there?)

FL- the restored Biltmore Course

NC- Grove Park Inn (Spence restored), Hope Valley CC (Silva restored, i think), Mimosa Hills (Spence), Southern Pines, Myers Park (Weed), Wilmington Municipal (Pritchard)

All of these are Ross-associated.

-Brad

[Pete Buczkowski]

Mission Inn - El Campeon in FL (1926), Architect Charles Clarke of Scotland.

[RE Blanks]

 FLORIDA
 
Gulf Stream GC

[mike_malone]

 Certainly Indian Creek-Fl.

[Bill Gayne]

The Dunes GC really doesn't belong on the list as it is a post WW II RTJ Sr. course. So is Peachtree.

Additional courses: North Fulton in Georgia and Raleigh Country Club also in North Carolina.

[RE Blanks]

1950 was my cutoff.  sorry.

[mark chalfant]

Texarkana in arkansas   by William Langford

Egllin  AFB in  Florida panhandle by  William  Langford

[Steve_Lovett]

Ponce de Leon in St. Augustine no longer exists.  Whether it was a "classic" may depend upon your interpretation.  It was old, had a great setting, and at one time may have been prominent in St. Augustine.  It was noteworthy as one of Donald Ross's early works in Florida.  It was not classic in terms of exceptional quality - however the "bones" were there to make it so.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Florida-
Seminole
Mountain Lake

I haven't played, but Ross did CC of Orlando and Lake Wales CC.

Also the infamous Fernandina Beach !!

[John_Cullum]

In FL I would add Sara Bay, Timaquana, and Univ of Florida by Ross and Palma Ceia by Bendelow. There are certainly other Ross courses but I would hesitate to include them among the best, e.g. Belleview Biltmore, Dunedin, Palatka, San Jose.

In GA I would add the front 9 of Savannah Golf Club by Ross and also Glen Arven. I would delete Sea Island because the renovations there are so drastic, and possibly eliminate Augusta National on the same basis.

[BCrosby]

Add Forest Hills (Augusta, Ross), North Fulton (Egan) and Jekyll Island (Travis) to the GA list.

Add Hyde Park (Jax, Ross/Thompson) to the FL list.

There are several nine hole Ross courses in Ga. not on your list. Griffin, Warm Springs come to mind.

I don't know what you mean by "classical designs", but there were many homemade courses built in the Golden Age (or earlier) in Ga. Most were done by local enthusiasts. Many have survived in one for or another. An example might be the Coosa CC in Rome. Virtually every town of any size had some sort of course. Athens Ga had three courses in 1930, two of which were homemade and NLE. I assume that was true in other SE states too.

In short, there were lots of courses built in the the SE during the Golden Age. The question is where you draw the line for your list.

Bob  

[Steve_Lovett]

I understand there isn't much left of Ross's work at San Jose, and I am not sure I would consider Palma Ceia "classic".  Old perhaps, but doubtfully classic.

Do you believe there is a distinction between "old" and "classic"?

[John_Cullum]

I don't distinguish between old and classic much. I did note that the thread initially looked for the best the state had to offer. I think Palma Ceia holds it own, it's a great course.

[RE Blanks]

Courses built before 1950, that are considered to among the best in its state.  If you look at the top 100 state by state list for the southeast it is dominated by resort/new courses.  I know the SE has held a reputation of having few quality pre 1950 courses, but I know in my state I would rather play Augusta CC or CC of Columbus than many of the newer courses that are tops of these lists.  

[Jason Tetterton]

Myers Park in Charlotte, NC is a really nice "Classic Course".

[james soper]

FL- Indian Creek- William Flynn

[Steve_Lovett]

Would you consider Palma Ceia among the best in the entire state of Florida...?  Or among the best older courses in the entire state..?

[Mike Hendren]

I suspect Langford was involved at Jackson (TN) CC as it was constructed not too long after his Chickasaw design in Memphis, less than 2 hours away.  Severely pushed up greens with flat-bottomed bunkering.   The oldest course in West Tennessee outside of Memphis where Hogan once played an exhibition with a teenage Mason Rudolph.  

Converted to bent by John LaFoy a few years ago.  I haven't been back but have reason to believe the greens were completely re-built, perhaps softened.  What I remember is vintage golden age, perhaps the first I ever saw/played.

FWIW, rumor has it that Chickasaw is looking at a restoration.   Apparently the greens are no longer Langford's.  

Mike

[BCrosby]

Bogey -

I will be in Memphis in a couple of months for a wedding. Is Chickasaw worth playing?

Bob

[John_Cullum]

Would you consider Palma Ceia among the best in the entire state of Florida...?  Or among the best older courses in the entire state..?

I would say it's among the better older courses. Apparently you are not impressed at all.

[Mike Hendren]

Bob,

Check IM's.

Mike

[wsmorrison]

In Louisianna there is/was Metairie Country Club.  It was recently restored by Ron Forse but is now under water as it was built below sea level.  I thought this was a Seth Raynor.  It is listed as a 1925 Jack Daray in Cornish and Whitten.  The photos Ron showed me sure looked like Raynor.

[Steve_Lovett]

Re: Palma Ceia - I really like the setting and the maturity, and I like the golf course quite a bit although I have only played it once.  I don't know that I would classify it as either "great" or "classic" - my sense is that it is a bit tired but still very nice.  I agree with your comment "among the better older courses".  

[John Goodman]

I think you've got to take Birmingham CC from your Alabama list; the West Course is not very Ross anymore (having been redone by Dye in the '80's).  It's a great course, though.  BCC East has also been reworked; but it (unlike the West) is not and hasn't been among the best in the state.  Mountain Brook Club's course was recently restored (they say) to the original Ross design.  It's not among the best in the state in my view, but it's a fun course and worth playing.  I've not seen the Mobile CC course.

In the "homemade" or nonpedigreed-but-old course category, you've got Montgomery CC (1903), Selma CC (1903), CC of Tuscaloosa (1920), Woodward GC (Birmingham) (1916; archie Charlie Hall, a president of the PGA in the 30's), and Musgrove GC (Jasper) (1932, redone by Pate in early 90's), among others.  I don't think any would meet the best-in-state criterion, though.