The 1st and the 18th at National Golf Links?

[Mark_Fine]

If I'm not mistaken, the 1st at The National plays directly into the rising sun while the 18th finishes directly into the setting sun??  Is that surprising to anyone and why is it never addressed as a routing weakness?  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mark, are you planning on aiding Rees in his changes at the National?

I guesss I better get there REALLY quick!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark Fine,

Don't worry, old CBM got it right the first time.

The original first hole played to the North and the original 18th hole played to the south.

The current 10th hole was # 1 and the current 9th hole was
# 18.

I think # 18 benefits from the tee being low, with a drive required into a hill that blocks the setting sun.  The hill also blocks the setting sun on the second shot.  For some strange reason the sun has never bothered me on the first tee.
Perhaps it's because you're hitting down into a valley, and your focus is below the horizon.
But, then again, the earliest I've ever teed off is 7:30am.

Tommy Naccarato,

Why no objections to previous changes made with Rees being consulted ?

[Search Master]

Check out the following old threads, both started by Patrick Mucci:  "Formulaic Football Stadiums" and "Which came 1st, the clubhouse or the course."   And to make your job easier, just do a search of the discussion group and plug in the words "routing east west NGLA" and check the all words box!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Pat,
I didn't know Rees had been there before! This is probably why I hear so much about how the National is changing more and more every year.

Wait a second Pat, weren't you the guy just recently posting on trying to save GREAT old courses?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy Naccarato,

Before you knew Rees had been there you applauded the changes.

And now, after discovering that he has been there before,
you say, that explains all the changes.

You must learn to be ojective and consistent, Oh great one.

Do I detect a double standard or Bias ?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Pat, Applaud what changes? I have never applauded anything at National other then what I have heard of Karl Olson's work. As far as bias, I have one ultimate bias against Rees--Sandpines. If that doesn't say it all, then, I will be forced to reopen the Sandpines case files, post uncooth aerial photos which not only prove my point. Hopefully this means case closed.

Pat, before this gets to Paulian length, I'm going to end this post right now and not say anymore.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy Naccarato,

Just one.... last question.

Do you think that Karl Olson's work was done independently, in a vacuum, absent consultation or collaboration with anyone else at NGLA ?

[Mark_Fine]

Pat,
Thanks for the education.  I didn't know that.  I've only played there a few times so I'm not sure how big a deal the orientation of these two holes are now.  I would think the 18th, however, could be tough even with those hills.  It's worse looking up than looking down.  
Mark

[TEPaul]

Mark:

You didn't know that NGLA's nines were reversed? I'll tell you something--it's a good thing they were reversed, even if it means the morning sun is in your face on #1 and evening sun in your face on #18!

If MacD stuck with the original routing he really would've had to do something about the last half of #9 (original #18 )! That's the one part of the one hole that does not stand up to the rest on that course and even as #9 something still needs to be done about it. But as #18 it would be even more apparent!

[TEPaul]

redanman:

But not my first removal of an unintended smiley!

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

You've made a good point about the current 9th, old 18th, but, George Bahto did indicate that the green was huge, coming back into the current fairway a good distance, and the schematic in "Scotland's Gift" seems to indicate additional bunkering at the second shot landing area.  Lastly, I wonder if the winds, and especially the afternoon winds are out of the south.  If so, the hole becomes far more difficult than it's current version.

This might be a good topic for us to discuss with George after our January 11th get together.

[TEPaul]

Pat:

Apparently the enormous putting green on the old 18th (#9) was due to a combined practice putting green when the old hotel was there before burning and before the nines were reversed.

To me strictly from a strategic point of view a crossing diagonal bunker scheme snaking across the second shot landing area would be a no-brainer but one does not like to think that much about fooling with that course now even with a strategic no-brainer!

I do not see anything in "Scotland's Gift Golf" in any schematic that indicates anything like that--not what I'm talking about anyway.