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peter_p

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #200 on: August 28, 2005, 05:47:24 PM »
Patrick,
NBC's Gary Koch said that yesterday was the stressful day because winning the semis gets you into the US Open and the Masters. Pity today's finals is an afterthought.  :-\

TEPaul

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #201 on: August 28, 2005, 06:59:08 PM »
Patrick:

That's right, you can only vouch for what you saw and that's precisely why you should refrain from saying things like the greens of Merion were like Kevlar. You should learn to take the word of those who were there in person all week and saw hundreds of shots come into all those greens with plenty of control. You want the facts? Those were the facts---just ask anyone who was there including some of the competitors.

:)

TEPaul

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #202 on: August 28, 2005, 07:02:11 PM »
"The better players seem fearless when the greens are receptive to approach shot."

Patrick:

Which is it, Kevlar or receptive? Make up your mind. Or do you think the greens like kevlar to all those competitors who didn't get to the finals and receptive for those two that did?  ;)

TEPaul

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #203 on: August 28, 2005, 07:13:41 PM »
Congratulations to Edoardo Molinari, the first Italian to win the US Amateur----perhaps even the first resident of Italy to even play in it. I did not realize until today he'd never played in a tournament in the States until flying over here last a few weeks ago and qualifying as the medalist in Baltimore and flying home. I also did not realize Molinari had to sink a bunker shot on his last hole of on-site qualifying just to get into the 19 for 17 play-off for match play Wednesday morning.

The first I saw of him in the Amateur he was playing the 9th hole against Van der Walt a giant blond South African. I was standing there with a lady member of Merion who looked at the names on the placcard of their match, then looked at this giant blond South African and this swarthy dark Italian with a fairly heavy beard by that time and asked me which one was Van der Walt and which one was Molinari?

I'll tell you---some people really are intutive, aren't they?  Naturally I told her the giant blond had to be Molinari and the swarthy dark one had to be Van der Walt  ;)

BTW, it looks like Van der Walt's brother Tjaart just lost out in a play-off on tour today.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #204 on: August 28, 2005, 07:35:09 PM »
My day at Merion yesterday was simply the best day I've ever had at a golf course without actually playing.  The gallery was great, the golf was great, the on-course staff (mostly members) were great, and the course left me speechless.

And the Deacon/Dougherty match was like a movie.  Heck - we even got to talk to him mom on the 16th.  

Unless you've seen it in person, you don't know how great Merion is.  

***
By the way, NBC said that Edoardo Molinari played some local munis earlier in the week.  Any idea where he may have played?

And did you hear how Edoardo is spending tomorrow caddying for his father at Merion?  Extremely classy!

What a great week!


(We even got to see the semi-famous co-author of a heavily anticipated book on Mr. William Flynn!)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2005, 07:38:11 PM by Dan Herrmann »

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #205 on: August 28, 2005, 07:39:52 PM »
You guys are funny.

Molinari finished 7 under on the last 15 holes.  Wow!

The players each had tap-in birdies on 15 in the morning, by spinning it back down the green from above.  In the afternoon, both elected to hit it below, where Molinari rolled ina 25-30 footer to win.  Over the course of the day, it seems some adjustment was made for firmness.

Jim Nugent

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #206 on: August 28, 2005, 08:06:38 PM »
You guys are funny.

Molinari finished 7 under on the last 15 holes.  Wow!

The players each had tap-in birdies on 15 in the morning, by spinning it back down the green from above.  In the afternoon, both elected to hit it below, where Molinari rolled ina 25-30 footer to win.  Over the course of the day, it seems some adjustment was made for firmness.

And took 18 putts on those 15 holes!

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #207 on: August 28, 2005, 08:14:36 PM »
 Dan Herrmann said, "Heck - we even got to talk to his mom on the 16th."

That's funny.  At the Walker Cup we met the mothers of two of the players, one American (the guy who won the final point) and one Brit (the guy who lost the final point).  Not during their match, actually, but the day before.

It sounds like everybody who visited the Amateur had a great time.  The Walker Cup was wonderful to visit too, no ropes to speak of, watching the shots from the fairway and then walking up to the green to watch the putts from right in front.

The whole experience was dead opposite of PGA events where you have to fight to get a look.  There is something to be said about going to these amateur events!

TEPaul

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #208 on: August 28, 2005, 08:37:35 PM »
John Kirk:

Regarding your post #217 and the receptiveness of the greens would you mind telling that to Pat Mucci? For some reason he thinks the greens at Merion were like Kevlar, I guess because he saw one player on TV hit a ball over the 18th green with a wedge.  ;)

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #209 on: August 28, 2005, 08:47:54 PM »
I'm glad I stayed home today rather than play a round.  It was fun watching a couple of very classy amatuer players show some real talant.  Dougherty has nothing to hang his head for either.  He played very well, but not excellent like Molinari today.  These last two days were as good as golf gets to watch on TV, IMHO.  With picture in picture, I got to keep track of Hartford too where they had an exciting finish.  

But, knowing how flattened things look on TV made me strain to imagine all the cool stuff there really is there on the ground at Merion.  

Patrick, Kevlar schmedlar... :P ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #210 on: August 28, 2005, 09:10:21 PM »
RJ Daley,

It's amazing what rain and syringing can do to greens, which played differently today then during the earlier part of the week.

TEPaul,

Ask Kim what happened to his ball

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #211 on: August 28, 2005, 10:00:09 PM »
Concur, Pat - drainage, and green firmness is of our major concern.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #212 on: August 28, 2005, 10:11:53 PM »
Will the USGA be influenced by Molinari's 7 birdies in 15 holes in the afternoon round today to deny Merion an Open?
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #213 on: August 28, 2005, 10:16:43 PM »
Steve - Remember - match play is outside the barrier of medal play.  We go for it in match, and we wonder about it in medal !

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #214 on: August 28, 2005, 11:14:11 PM »
Wish Dougherty won.


Go NU!!!!!!!!!!!!


 ;)
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #215 on: August 28, 2005, 11:21:14 PM »
Paul, better check on Shivas... ;)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #216 on: August 29, 2005, 02:48:12 AM »
Quote
Puffy Wilson? He's gone. The bunkers of Merion no longer have that puffy and upholstered look to them. The long and ragged and natural looking grass surrounds have obfuscated all that.

I guess I'd have to say the real irony of those bunker surrounds now compared to how they were before the project is that before the project the club said those surrounds had to be fixed because they were collapsing and falling apart. But the fact is now the sheer volume and weight of those grass surrounds is so excessive compared to the way they used to be that the issue of them slipping and collapsing to some extent will probably always be part and parcel of Merion East's maintenance practices.

TEPaul,
you just contradicted yourself in the same post and you were redundant at the same time.....

So what is it, The puffy, upolstered look is gone, while the ledge is still collapsing, which was the entire reasoning for doing the bunker project to begin with....? ? ? ?

OR......

The puffy, upolstered look is it still there hiding underneth all of that rough grass WHICH LOOKS GREAT, while the ledge is still collapsing, which was the entire reasoning for doing the bunker project to begin with? ? ? ? ?

Would you feel the same way if Merion was on the West Coast, and if so, how come you've never said anything about the VERY SAME contractor and the VERY SAME architect who are performing the same butchery on one of our great National gems called Riviera?  Or are your principles just confined to Phildelphia and South Jersey?

Enquiring minds want to know....

Hugh "Puffy" Wilson wants to know to....(He's alive and well too!)

Also, You used to be a person of substance about the attention to detail that certain architects pride themselves on when doing work. This would mean utilizing creative means for creative thought. I've never seen these architects I speak of, EVER compromise their art and their creativity for the "QUICK FIX."

To me, all of the bunkers at Merion now look the same, where before they had a certain character to them--almost as if they had that seaside individual character that could be christened or named. The same type of character that makes them legendary for their QUALITY. I don't see that at all in this new, "much improved" bunkering that you and Chip love so much. Even if it flies into the face of the somewhat well documented principles of the club. To me that substance you once had has either been severly compromised or is simply being overlooked by good old fasion homerism.

Mike Cirba, Don't back down on this one! Give it right back to him! He opened this door.

TEPaul

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #217 on: August 29, 2005, 05:48:54 AM »
TommyN:

Regarding that last post of yours, OK, if you want to get into it with your opinions on the bunkers of Merion, the architect and contractor and my position on the evolution of the Merion bunkers, then I'm willing to do exactly that, particularly since you're now accusing me of a lack of substance and "homerism".

For starters, perhaps you should look up the definitions of "irony" and "obfuscate" and what that may mean in my post you just quoted. If you do that properly then perhaps you'll reevaluate what you said about me ‘contradicting’ myself or being ‘redundant’. What I'm doing here is reporting how those bunkers have changed in look in the last three years or so and why.

If Merion were on the West Coast would I say the same things I have about it? Probably not. I probably wouldn’t say much of anything about it because if Merion were on the West Coast I very likely wouldn't know the course as well as I have and do. You asked why I haven't said as much about the recent Fazio/Macdonald architectural project at Riviera or the bunkers of Riviera as I did a few years ago about the Fazio/Macdonald bunker project of Merion and the bunkers as they are today? Probably because I just don't know that much about Riviera and the details of its architecture and the evolution of its bunkers as well as the Fazio/Macdonald project there. The same is true of your understanding of Merion on the East Coast.

Perhaps you should start to recognize the same thing about yourself---eg you may know the history and evolution of Riviera well but not Merion's.

You want Mike Cirba to stand his ground and give it right back to me? What are you talking about? I was out there with him during most of Saturday's round, and told him just what I did on here. While out there I also introduced him to Merion’s president and Joe Logan the Philly Inquirer golf reporter. Mike Cirba is a good golf architecture analyst but he doesn't know the way that golf course was throughout its evolution, particularly the evolution of its bunkering the way I do and he doesn't know how and why they've evolved the way they have in the last 2-3 years. I doubt he's ever met Richie Valentine, Greg Armstrong, Matt Shaeffer and many of the others involved with Merion and spoken to them about all this at length. I doubt he's done the research on the golf course that Wayne and I have. How well did he know the details of that course before the project? How much has he kept up with the details of what went on out there since the project?

If you want to talk about the facts of the evolution of Merion and its bunkers I'll be glad to go into the details---but all that is in the archives of this website anyway. There's nothing contradictory or redundant about anything I’ve said. The bunkers today do not look like they did three years ago and they sure don't look like they did five years ago as I've said on here many times. The bunkers five years ago sure didn't look like they did in 1930s and those 1930 bunkers looked little like they did in the teens. If you want to know the details of how and why they were at any of those times we'd be glad to discuss it.

But if it's simply your never-ending vendetta against architect Tom Fazio, contractor Macdonald & Co and perhaps Merion, the club, and some of its members such as Buddy Marucci, I'm just not interested in that on this website, and as you know that's something I've spoken with you about a number of times on the telephone as being really counterproductive generally. That kind of modus operandi of yours on this website I view as truly counter-productive with Merion or with Riviera, their architecture and also very much this website in a general sense. If you think ‘substance’ on here is for all GOLFCLUBATLAS’s contributors to form a consensus along with you in your criticism of Fazio and Macdonald & Co. then I’m not on the same page with you and I never will be.

My philosophy is to talk about golf architecture in detail and honestly and keep the personal vendettas and criticisms towards architects, contractors and clubs and their members involved in projects out of it.

And I don't say that in some sort of philosophical vacuum either. It definitely is not lost on me that if this website and some of its contributors could take this Merion bunker project situation on this website back about 5-6 years and learn how to have an intellegent dialogue with Merion and those involved with it then this site and some of it contributors and their opinions may've had a far more benefical influence on the course and some of the things that took place.

But long ago all that became virtually impossible. Why? Because it all became almost completely adverserial. Who was primarily responsible for that? You were TommyN. When are you ever going to learn that you can maintain your passionate principles about golf architecture and simply apply them in a more productive and less adverserial way? You know as well as I do that most all of us on this website are basically in the same philosophical boat in our principles regarding golf course architecture. The only real difference I can see is sometimes some of us have to pay a higher personal price in various ways than others do. And the reason for that, as far as I can see, is because we choose to get more directly involved than others do with some clubs and those who have to do with them.

We all love you on here but do yourself, me and the rest of us a favor and take this advice of mine to heart this time. Understand that getting to know and trying to work with some of the people you may not always agree with, even if in small ways, is not compromising architectural principles. Better things happen with golf courses if one can get involved, even if in a small way with them, rather than completely pissing off the people who have to do with them.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2005, 06:19:11 AM by TEPaul »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #218 on: August 29, 2005, 06:50:25 PM »
Tom,
Answer your phone or give me a call at home.

TEPaul

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #219 on: August 29, 2005, 10:03:35 PM »
"Tom,
Answer your phone or give me a call at home"

TommyN:

The house got struck by lightening about a week ago----the phones are totally screwed up and getting worse. They promise it'll all be fixed by tomorrow.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #220 on: August 29, 2005, 10:37:10 PM »
Struck by lighting? ? ?

Good thing it didn't get the internet connection!

And by the way, wasn't I the one that suggested installing a lighting rod at the house in 2000?  ;)

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #221 on: August 29, 2005, 10:54:48 PM »
Internet connection ???, how about the wine cellar cooling system. ;)

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #222 on: August 30, 2005, 04:31:52 AM »
Sully,
How could I be so stupid?!?!?!  

TO HELL WITH EVERYTHING ELSE! SAVE THE WINE!