Re: Roping off fairways

[Don_Mahaffey]

You seem to spend a lot of time second guessing your supt. Why don't you go buy him a cup of coffee and listen to what he has to say rather then continuing with the locker room gossip and criticisms.

[Dave_Miller]

Quassi:

You are correct.  While the Super is a very nice guy it is becoming very apparent that he does not know how to grow grass or that he is not permitted to grow grass properly.  

I am also a member of this club and the methods they are using will not solve the problem.

It is an easy answer to blame everything on the carts.  This is absolute nonsense.  A continuos cart path sytem is not the solution and only slows down play and costs a lot of money.  A very disciplined cart traffic management program is required and they keep ignoring it. The solution can be done simply, effectively and inexpensively.  They have nothing to lose by listening to a different approach. 

I have spoken to several of those in control about this and have even offered to help with this program and share some ideas that I know have proven successful at other clubs.  This simply falls on deaf ears.

I am more than willing to help but doing what they are continuing to do is a recipe for failure and disaster.  

Get in touch maybe together we can talk to a couple of persons I think will listen.

Best
Dave

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dave Miller & Quassi,

Accessing the appropriate party/ies and having meaningful imput is difficult in large communities such as Admiral's Cove, Boca West, Frenchman's Creek, etc.,etc.. where you're just one voice amongst 3,000.

The situation you describe is one of the reasons why more people are seeking to join GOLF clubs, like The Medalist and Bear's Club.

My observation, with respect to providing imput at large residential golf communities is:
if you're not involved with the ruling junta, you're expending energy without results and damaging your vocal cords at the same time.  However, if you feel the situation is serious,
I would suggest that you write a well constructed but brief letter to the Green Chairman, the President, and the next in line to be President.  That way, at least you will have presented your points of view and concerns in an intelligent manner, on the record.

Good Luck

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dave Miller,

In 1991 we contracted for 419 in the fairways, 328 on the greens, approaches and tees.

As you may know, we won a law suit relative to the fairway grass not being 419, genetically.  That suit, I believe was responsible for Florida reinstating the certification program they had abandoned earlier.

We have subsequently redone the greens and I believe tiff eagle is now on the greens and tees.  The fairways and rough continue to be a hybrid mix of grasses, with the alleged 419 as the predominant strain.

If I recall correctly, didn't John McArthur create those canals and waterways long ago ?  Is it possible that he dumped the dredged soil to make the golf course ?  Kelly Blake Moran would know, I'd contact him, since I believe he either designed the course with Von Hagge or had a substantial role in same.

[Steve Okula]

Dave Miller,

It is also an easy answer to blame everything on the superintendent.

Where did you go to school and how exactly did you become an expert on golf course maintenance?

Quassi,

Three aerations per year may be too much or it may be not enough. Overseeding fairways in the winter time may be a good idea, unless it's not. What species and varieties of turf are you on? What is the age of the course? What is the history of mechanical cultivation, like verticutting and aeration? How much thatch is there? How many rounds per year? What is their distribution by month? What are the yearly norms for temperatures and rainfall? How many carts? How wide are the fairways? How much undulation and how many bunkers restrict traffic? What, exactly, is the soil structure? What is the water quality? Describe in detail the irrigation system. What is the maintenance budget? What are the other stresses, such as weeds, insects, and diseases? How does all this compare to the other "fine courses" you mention.

It is patently absurd to be looking for solutions club-specific maintenance issues on this forum. It is also a despicable, cheap, shot unbecoming of gentlemen to criticize your superintendent here.

I gather your club is someplace called "Admirals". I'll be sure to look it up and give my colleague a heads up.

I'm glad as hell I don't work at your club.

[European collegue]

I'll second Steve's comments; this forum is not the place for finding site specific maintenance problems.

[Dave_Miller]

Steve Okula:

You really ought to know the facts and know a little bit about a specific situation that you are referring to before making the comments you did.  

No one is trying to do in the Super or anyone else.  All anyone wants is to just to get him and the committee to stop with the easy answers and stop blaming everything on carts and start addressing the things that cause the problems.  A lot of money was spent on the re-grassing with very poor results.  When asked the answer is always "it's the carts"

They even have a high paid consultant who does nothing but say the carts are to blame.  If that is the case why do other clubs less than one mile away with a higher level of play and more carts not have the same problems.

The Super has been here about 15 years and will probably be here another 15 or 30 or until he retires.  He is a great guy but for some reason is having problems that just seem to get worse not better.

All the questions you raise have been asked and some of them get no answers other than "it's the carts".  Sorry I've been around long enough and have seen enough to know that is not usually the right answer and is covering up something else.

Best,
Dave

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve Okula,

You're not wrong, but the problem may have nothing to do with the super

At large residential communities, it is sometmes difficult to penetrate the inner circle, to have a meaningful dialoque with regard to one's concerns, and it may be the policies of the members in power that are creating the problems on the golf course, despite the super's best efforts to address them.

At some of these large communities, sometimes, the super is forced to do things at the point of a bayonet, for all the wrong reasons.

I know of an instance where a  green chairman ORDERED his super to apply an organic fertilizer to the greens, even though the USGA had warned that it was experimental in nature, untested and that they did not recommend application without a trial application on a limited area of the sod green.  The super came to me with the problem, and I told him to go over the Chairman's head, to the President and the board.
I told him that it was my limited experience that clubs didn't fire members, no matter how poor their decisions, but that clubs did have a record of firing chefs, managers, staff and superintendents, and that when the stuff hits the fan, they look to the professional, not the member.
Unfortunately, he didn't take my advice, applied the fertilizer, burned out 16 greens, and the Green chairman said he didn't know anything about the technical end and that the super shouldn't have done it.  Nice huh ?  
Needless to say, the super's days were numbered.

The reason I suggested a brief letter was to go on record with the perceived problems with those in power, and those coming into power.  If the letter identifies the problems, and their roots are political rather than agronomic, recourse may be at hand at the next membership meeting.

At the same time I was writing the letter I would attempt the Dutch Uncle approach, which might provide valueable insight.

I can only state this as fact, I don't work well under supervision, and having 714 bosses, or 1428 or so bosses, would put me over the edge, so much so that I'd probably start thinking like TEPaul