Woods: pin high on 17 in two

[Jim Nugent]

17 still has not been reached in two.  But the question of whether itīs possible is answered.  Woods just carried his 2nd shot to nearly pin high, in the left hand bunker.  

3rd shot will be a handful, as the ball ended within a few inches of the side lip of the bunker.  

[Ron Kern]

Looks like 700+ yard par five in competetive golf is not too far down the road.

I had the sound down so I couldn't hear any comments, but it looked like he hit a fairway wood rather than a driver off the deck.  It appeared that the ball flew nearly pin high.

[Lance Rieber]

 Bad breaks are a part of the game.  When I hear Bill Kraztert say it's "not fair".  Everyone in the field has good and bad breaks we just don't see them because they aren't on tv like tiger.  He has to birdie 18 to make the cut.
Lance

[George Pazin]

To be fair to Krazert - pun somewhat intended - I think he meant "It's not fair" in the rooting sense, not literally.

Hope Tiger sticks around for the weekend - it'd be less interesting without him.

[Voytek Wilczak]

I like it that Tiger went for it on 17 - although he apparently paid for it by making a bogey out of the bunker.

He could have played the hole safely as a 100-yard par three, being on the cutline as he was.

[Matt_Ward]

Time for a reality check guys from someone at the event.

The 17th is now playing straight downwind -- 10-15 mph with the prevailing SW wind. The fairways are also drying out and you see that by the roll Tiger's ball received on the tee shot.

I'm not minimizing the skilss -- power and accuracy to get where Tiger did in two but the hole is playing far different than earlier in the week.

No less than Tiger would likely say the same.

[Jfaspen]

Looks like 700+ yard par five in competetive golf is not too far down the road.

Gosh, I hope not.. I'm sure it has been said 1000 times in other threads, but this hole gets my vote for the most boring hole this year in championship golf..  Played perfectly, the player turns it into a "par 3 from whichever distance they choose."
5% of the field max can reach it with optimal conditions and a kick off of a sprinkler head..  Hell, shorten the hole 50 yards and bring those greenside bunkers into play more..

just some thoughts

jf

[Brad Klein]

He made 6, didn't he? Isn't that point of a strategic shot? It's odd that only 2-3 guys in the field can go for it in two, but it has its risks, as we saw. Otherwise it's a boring three shot par-5, or to amend what Feherty said, the longest 90-yard par-3 in golf.

[Dan_Callahan]

On 18, Tiger's ball barely got any roll. He hit it 358 yards. A 550-yard hole, and he hit a 7-iron to 20 feet for his second shot. Incredible.

[Jim Nugent]

Time for a reality check guys from someone at the event.

The 17th is now playing straight downwind -- 10-15 mph with the prevailing SW wind. The fairways are also drying out and you see that by the roll Tiger's ball received on the tee shot.

I'm not minimizing the skilss -- power and accuracy to get where Tiger did in two but the hole is playing far different than earlier in the week.

No less than Tiger would likely say the same.

Iīm sure your report is accurate.  But thatīs golf.  The wind changes.  Conditions alter.  

Seems like only a few hours ago we were being promised it was probably impossible.  Clearly not the case.  

[Voytek Wilczak]

How about late Sunday afternoon with Mickelson and VJ (I dare not say Tiger) tied going into 17th, which is playing downwind?

One of them hits the green in 2. Gallery is going bonkers.

I'd say that's plenty of drama, worthy of a major.

Give Baltusrol a chance.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

For those who have actually played the 17th, they will attest that it is an awesome par 5.  It is not even closed to being boring.  This hole might suffer tremendously from the overhead TV shots.  If the hole were a simple routine 90 yard par 3, then why is it currently playing over par--surely these guys are good enough to play a 90 yard hole in par!  The tee shot requies some precison and some length and has a very  good visual with the famous crossbunkers way up the fairway.  The second shot is semi-blind--making the layup somewhat more exacting.  The TV does not capture the elevation of the green from the fairway--from the fairway you feel as though you are hitting up a mini cliff with penal bunkers on the sides.  The severe green makes the approach no slam dunk.  

[Craig Sweet]

Dan Callahan, what part of Tigers play on 18 did you find incredible? The drive, or the 7 iron to 20ft?

Yesterday on a 505 yd hole I hit a driver/7 iron to the green...and I can assure you my drive was not 358yds. nor do I hit a 7 iron as far as Tiger.

[Jim Nugent]

Dan Callahan, what part of Tigers play on 18 did you find incredible? The drive, or the 7 iron to 20ft?

Yesterday on a 505 yd hole I hit a driver/7 iron to the green...and I can assure you my drive was not 358yds. nor do I hit a 7 iron as far as Tiger.

What I find interesting is to compare Tiger this year with Jack in 1967.  The two famous power hitters of their time, mano a mano, who both make their living by eating up par 5īs.

72nd hole in 1967, Nicklaus hit a poor drive, decided to lay up short of the creek with his second, and then sent a towering 1-iron from 225 or 230 onto the green.

This year Tiger nukes his drive and hits a 7 iron second from just under 200 to the back of the green.  

What would Tiger hit from 225 or 230 on this hole?  5 iron?  

The game has changed in almost unfathomable ways.  

[Craig Sweet]

Jim, for starters there's the "de-lofting" of the club. A guy I work with swears that today's 5 iron has the same loft as a 25 year old 6 iron.

[Dan_Callahan]

Craig,

I'm assuming your weren't playing at Baltusrol, which means you were playing an entirely different hole (50 yards shorter) with entirely different characteristics. What did I find incredible about Tiger's play on 18? As I said before, his drive was absurdly long. 358 yards with barely any roll. Followed by a 200-yard 7-iron shot that was executed with the knowledge that a mistake would equal a missed cut. All while churning inside knowing that he had just had some incredibly bad luck on the previous hole. You weren't impressed?

[Craig Sweet]

Dan, this is how the NY Times reported the 18th:

"After a 340-yard downhill, downwind drive, he had 169 yards to the front edge of the green. His 7-iron landed in the middle of the green and stopped 15 feet beyond the cup. With a two-putt birdie, he and Williams smiled and shook hands."

That's some pretty good ball striking, but not that unusual.

[Jim Nugent]

Jim, for starters there's the "de-lofting" of the club. A guy I work with swears that today's 5 iron has the same loft as a 25 year old 6 iron.

Craig, donīt you mean the other way around -- that todayīs 5 iron has the loft of a 25 year old 4 iron?  Otherwise, the comparison becomes even more ridiculous.  

Suppose instead of a 5 iron, we say 4 iron.  Still a 3 club advantage over Nicklaus.  

[Matt_Sullivan]

Craig

Tiger's lofts are quite old fashioned. He plays a 51 deg pitching wedge and a 45 deg 9 iron, according to his press conference earlier this week. So while lofts have certainly strengthened on most modern clubs -- 41 deg 9 irons are common on callaway clubs for example -- we can't put Tiger's distance down to that.

Here's his quote:

"[M]y irons are still very weak compared to today's standards. They are the standards back in the 60s. People have that so called gap wedge. Well, my pitching wedge is like 51 degrees. My 9 iron is like 45, and that's like most people's gap wedges.

A lot of the guys' pitching wedge is like my 9 irons, so I play with very weak lofts, but they have worked so far."

[Don Herdrich]

TNT was turned into the Tiger network yesterday.......with Woods buddy Charles Barkley leading the rooting section.......it was dispicable watching and listening to these announcers outright root for Woods.....

his drive/2nd at 17 and 18 were incredible, but that is Woods, he has all the shots........but, you cannot add his name to reaching #17 in 2......a bunker does not count....and on #18, please remember what he did the day before.......one day good, one day very bad

[noonan]

TNT was turned into the Tiger network yesterday.......with Woods buddy Charles Barkley leading the rooting section.......it was dispicable watching and listening to these announcers outright root for Woods.....

his drive/2nd at 17 and 18 were incredible, but that is Woods, he has all the shots........but, you cannot add his name to reaching #17 in 2......a bunker does not count....and on #18, please remember what he did the day before.......one day good, one day very bad

After Tiger was done with 18......TNT did not show 30 seconds of golf in the last 30 minutes of their telecast.

[Don Herdrich]

nice 2nd at #17 today Tiger.........instead of an easy 90 yd 3rd for a birdie you have to be "the man" and try to reach again......I hope he has an unplayable over there.........

[Brent Hutto]

I think Feherty's comment had a kernel of truth but should have been qualified somewhat. Playing the seventeenth at 650 or whatever yardage means that hitting a drive in the fairway gives you the privilege of playing it as a 90-yard Par 3 (assuming you're not so bold/reckless/silly as to go for the green).

On my longish holes (560+) a Tour player is thinking that he needs to put the drive in the fairway in order to reach the green in two. Tilly and the PGA have conspired to create a hole where the player wants to put his drive in the fairway in order to get a chance to make an up-and-down with a flip wedge from 90 yards. On a normal long Par 5 driving it in the rough takes three out of play and makes 4 or 5 the likely scores. On the seventeenth at Baltusrol a drive in the rough brings 4 (with a good layup out of the rough), 5 and 6 (if you draw a bad lie or get too greedy on the second shot) into play. I'd think that's a good thing on the seventeenth hole of a major championship course with an easy Par 5 finishing hole.

My kudos to the architect and the tournament committee. Tiger could have easily been one or two under par on that hole through three rounds by taking the conservative route. He could have been three under by hitting good second shots with his aggressive strategy. Instead, he's one over par and giving up strokes to the field on those holes by choosing an aggressive strategy and then not executing.

[Bruceski]

Tiger could have easily been one or two under par on that hole through three rounds by taking the conservative route. He could have been three under by hitting good second shots with his aggressive strategy. Instead, he's one over par and giving up strokes to the field on those holes by choosing an aggressive strategy and then not executing.

Not really that aggressive. I've rarely seen Tiger not go for a green if he's "only" 260 to the front. He'd be roasted for not attempting it. He simply didn't execute a shot he should pull off more than 50% of the time. I like that green complex because it maximizes the punishment for not executing the shot. Tiger rightly is playing that hole at +1 after 3 rounds because he has not made the right approach shots. This is why he likely won't win. That's what PGA Tour golf SHOULD be about.

[Brent Hutto]

Bruce,

I didn't intend to beat Tiger up for his strategy. Today it was clearly a green-light situation with the hole back and right. Terrible swing by his standards. Yesterday was a few yards longer and the hole was tucked over near the bunker on the left, missing left was IMO a combination of trying to cut it too fine and making a slightly imperfect swing.

His real downfall today was not getting up and down for birdie. He got a break with the trampled down lie (as perfect as you could ever get given how far offline he hit the ball) with plenty of green to work with. From that lie to that hole he probably gets it with eight feet at least half the time but his short game wasn't at its best today.