st helena/napa course recommendation

« **on:** August 12, 2005, 03:03:46 PM »

If you were going to stay in St Helena, California, what kind of playing options exist that are of decent quality? I know the Stevenson Ranch in Napa is pretty close by (25 minutes), but haven't heard much else around the St Helena area by a 30 minute auto drive.

Am looking for some recommendations--cost isn't a factor, just quality golf course will do here.

« **Reply #1 on:** August 12, 2005, 03:18:06 PM »

Peter,
Are you nuts?

Your time up there should be about one thing--THE JUICE. It's all about the juice. Take the time and go search out the Plump Jack Winery, or Groth or Duck Horn or try to get a tour of Opus One. Learn what its all about.

Go see if you can meet Bobby Mondavi, or sneek a visit, past the gates of Stag's Leap. See if Franny Coppola is around and seeif he'll give you a tour of Neibaum-Coppola, the one that gets you past all of the touristas that hang around that place.

Use that time to go to Terra for a great meal. Go check out the CIA and that old building. There's also Thomas Keller's French Laundry and Buchon (which is one of my favorite restaurants) Cafe Jeanette' is another. I also like Briks, but I have heard that both the service and food has slipped a bit.

« **Reply #2 on:** August 12, 2005, 03:26:44 PM »

Peter

Stevinson Ranch is a good 2 hours + away from Napa over in the Central Valley.

In Napa if you must play you might try Eagle Vines which is a new course done by Johnny Miller. They took some old holes from the Chardonnay Shakespeare course and built some new ones and it turned out pretty well.

Silverado is there as well with 2 courses and was a former host of a Senior Tour event.

Serioulsy though, I would be inclined to skip the golf while in Napa and just enjoy the wineries.

« **Reply #3 on:** August 12, 2005, 03:28:59 PM »

Peter -

Stevenson Ranch golf course is at least a 2 hour drive from the Napa Valley.

Your best bets for good public-access, daily-fee golf within a 30 or 45-minute drive of St. Helena are:

1) Eagle Vines (east of the city of Napa)
2) Hiddenbrooke (off of Highway 80, north of Vallejo)
3) Stone Tree (off of Highway 101, east of Novato)

I have only played Hiddenbrooke and that was many years ago.

There are two good muni courses in Sonoma County -
Windsor GC (off Highway 101, north of Santa Rosa) and Rooster Run GC (off Highway 101, on the east side of Petaluma)

The two best golf courses in the area are probably Mayacama (private, north of Santa Rosa) and Sonoma (private/resort). There are also 36-holes at the Silvarado resort, just north of the city of Napa.

Kennedy Park GC is the muni for the city of Napa. Decent course, but the conditioning is a little suspect.

« **Reply #4 on:** August 12, 2005, 03:35:35 PM »

David,
You disgust me.

How can you suggest somewhere to play golf with all of that wine out there?

Man, our priorities are out of whack!

Peter, you know what kind of golf I play up in Napa? The B.S. kind! I once met up with a friend up there whose a member at Pine Valley, and all's we did was talk about the course while drinking vino! We did this at Joachim Spichals, Cafe Pinot, and while we sat there drinking some really good cab, I felt like someone was listening to us. I turned around and it was Robert "Arliss" Wohl, which we tok the conversation outside in the patio so we could both enjoy some really fine cigars. Arliss was completly amazed at the golf talk. He loved it.

GO DRINK! GO EAT! GO TALK! DON'T GOLF!

« **Reply #5 on:** August 12, 2005, 03:40:08 PM »

Ah, Stone Tree Golf Course.....

If I close my eyes, I can transport myself back to the early-90's when Ye Olde Renaissance Faire used to be held on what is now Stone Tree Golf Course. This is when the real kooks and odd-balls from the Bay Area would congregate to role-play for the weekend...Yikes!

Seriously, although I don't hate the course as some here do, I would certainly not steer anyone toward it, as opposed to partaking in the food and drink in the area...

If you absolutely must golf, and I find that decision dubious when in Napa/Sonoma, then your best bets are probably to try to find a way onto Mayacama, or perhaps the Meadow Club (although that's back-tracking a ways...) I think one has to stay at the Mission Inn to play Sonoma Golf Club, but that's another thought...

Vino, man, vino!

Peter

« **Reply #6 on:** August 12, 2005, 03:57:49 PM »

Tommy -

All I was trying to do was provide Peter M. with some "non-biased" information. Personally, I have not been to the Napa Valley in years. That's where all the tourists go!

Healdsburg and the Dry Creek Valley is where the real action is these days. However, in these days could be numbered as the attractions of Headlsburg were written up in the NY Times a week or so ago.

Peter H. -

I have not played Stone Tree. The course gets very 'mixed' reviews among my golfing friends. I have heard enough negative ones to dampen my interest.

However, you will be happy to know the Renaissance Faire is still alive and well (and currently in session) near Stafford Lake Park in Marin County, which is near Indian Valley GC.

DT

« **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2005, 05:22:58 PM »

I won't recommend Stone Tree to anyone, instead rationalizing with them that the $ 85 that they would spend on green fees could be better utilized by purchasing the local vino that would provide more than 5 hours of enjoyment ...

« **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:03:19 PM »

Benham gets it. Always has and always will.

David,
You of all people should have the knowledge that when in Heraldsberg, your in "Napa." It's more "IN" to say Napa.

"Hey, lets go to Heraldsberg this weekend! ! ! ! "

Or

"Hey Lets go hang out in Napa this weekend!"

There is a difference. Trust me!

I'm really disappointed in some of your recommending golf over vino when in the region. I expect the next recommendation from some of you, is for them to take the Wine Train to get there. Talk about Tourista! This was also the reason why I suggested hunting down Franny Coppola, to avoid the tourists. (I'm aware of those frigging tourists. You know the type. The ones that ask for a little 7up to mix with their grape.)

Where's Goodale when you need him?

« **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:03:20 PM »

Thanks, guys, for all the help on this one.

I did have a typo in my original post here--I meant Silverado Resort, not Stevinson Ranch. Just before I typed this post, I had the unfortunate experience of driving past Tustin Ranch GC, so I must have had that ranch thing on the mind.

Oh, there will be plenty of wine tasting to be sure.

I have read about the French Laundry restaurant--isn't it at least in the top 3 in the USA?

Need to prepare myself for opening day tomorrow--Man Utd v Everton at Goodison, 0445am!!

« **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:10:49 PM »

Peter,
I'm sure that wonderful crafted structure of a cart bridge of Tustin's main entrance had a lot to do with it!

French Laundry, as far as I know, is the NGLA of Napa--In these United States, it just doesn't get much better, or so I'm told. Me, the closest I'll get to Thomas Keller genius is the sister restaurant, Buchon, which is pretty phenominal stuff too. The Steak Frittes doesn't get any better.

It's more geared at people like myself who will never get to experience French Laundry, unless you get hit by a Chevron tanker and want to sue.

« **Reply #11 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:17:38 PM »

I'm leaving for Napa with my wife on Wednesday.
There will be plenty of wine and no golf scheduled for this long weekend.

I'm very much looking forward to dinner at Auberge du Soleil and a stop at Grgich!!

-Ted

« **Reply #12 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:24:33 PM »

French Laundry is wonderful and Tommy's right, though I'd call it the Cypress Point of restaurants.

Only thing is reservations are BRUTAL. If you want a table in the next few months, you're already too late. Oh you can luck into a cancellation, as a common friend here once did... But it's unlikely.

And Tommy's right also that it's VERY VERY expensive.

Buchon is way way better in the bang for buck category. It's not exactly cheap, but way closer to reality.

As for the rest, well.. us locals are lucky to be able to go there at a whim, so our priorities are different. For visitors, Tommy's right, it ought to be all about wine. That being said David does assess the courses right on... If one is there often or for a long time and thus open to golf, I'd say priority would go:

1. Mayacama (if you can get access)
2. Sonoma GC (if you can access or are staying at SMI)
3. Windsor GC (public)
4. Chardonnay GC (public)
5. Silverado (make it #1 if you are staying there)

All the rest fall below.

TH

ps - Ted - have fun! Kinda hot this time of year, but you'll manage. If you have time check out a lesser-known winery in Diamond Mountain area called Reverie... great people, great fun, great wine. Ask for Norm Kiken.

« **Reply #13 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:28:32 PM »

Peter M. -

The French Laundry could be the toughest reservation in the U.S. Your best bet is trying to get in a lunch rather than dinner. Bistro Jeanty in Yountville is very good if you are in the mood for something French-ish. The Foothill Cafe in a non-descript strip shopping mall west of Highway 29 in Napa city - not trendy and highly recommended.

DT

« **Reply #14 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:33:26 PM »

Huck, (You big Yahoo)

Thanks for reminding me about the challenge of getting into French Laundry. It's about as hard to get on there as it is to get on to Pine Valley.

Have you ever been to Terra? Another excellent choice for dining when in the valley. Why don't we sometime have a KP Cup there? Silverado and Mayacama. Could be fun.

Right now, Im thinking along with a few others for KP 5 to be a Sideways-themed event at La Purisima, Marsalla Ranch and others. What do you thnk?

« **Reply #15 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:36:39 PM »

David,
Bistro Jeanette (Pronoucned like you have typed it--"Jean-tay") (Jeanette is also my moms name.)

« **Reply #16 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:37:25 PM »

Tommy -

If you do the next KP at La Purisima, I might actually show up (as if anyone should care), if only as an excuse to have dinner at the Hitching Post II.

DT

« **Reply #17 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:41:15 PM »

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Hitching Post II; in fact, all of the restaurants from the movie including even playing the shitty River Course at Alisal so we can have a club toss or hit the cart competition in the middle of the very same fairway.

We can even do Crass Vineyards. (Fess Parker's)

« **Reply #18 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:54:09 PM »

Gents: organization of KP-V is in the hands of the SoCals. If you organize it, we will come.

That being said, La Purisima and others nearby sounds great to me - makes the drive shorter.

As for doing it at Mayacama and Silverado, well you have to remember that most of us are mortals, Tommy. The first is very private and the second requires staying there, and is rather expensive.

But that being said, yes I have been to Terra... had a big steak as I recall (it was awhile ago). There aren't many decent restaurants in Napa/Sonoma that I haven't been to... my wife and more importantly her parents are quite the foodies. Me? I'm pretty easy to please.

« **Reply #19 on:** August 12, 2005, 07:05:49 PM »

Sounds like I wont have to transport wines for the next KP.
The only time I ws in Napa was after getting knocked out of a match play in Medford. Played Silverado and Chardonnay, I'd rate them as good, not special.
As an aside, for those of you driving to Bandon, take Oregon 42 and stop 9m west of Winston at Girardet Wines.
Small but excellent. They've even joined the Bandon Chamber of Commerce.

« **Reply #20 on:** August 12, 2005, 07:22:18 PM »

Peter,
You can be anywhere in California and you wouldn't need to bring any wine with you. The entire state is the mecca of modern wine making.

Sorry France! I like your stuff too, but....

« **Reply #21 on:** August 12, 2005, 07:29:20 PM »

Peter and Tommy -

An interesting battle is going on these days, at least in the Bay Area from my purveyors, as it is very difficult to find the Oregon Pinots ...

Mike

« **Reply #22 on:** August 12, 2005, 07:30:00 PM »

Emperor,

You're killing me man. Had to pass this year after visiting Sonoma County the past two Septembers

. Guess I'll console myself with a little zin from Ravenswood.

Be well. Drink wine.

Mike

« **Reply #23 on:** August 13, 2005, 08:22:58 AM »

Tommy

I'm in friggin' Dornoch. Can't you handle these matters on your own!?

« **Reply #24 on:** August 13, 2005, 10:34:35 AM »

Redanman,
Mustards is an excellent choice also that I forgot. Especially for lunch. My sister Lisa, Michael W. and I ate there two days straight!

I equate drinking chardonnay to the same as drinking Boones Farm Strawberry Hill. Eh Gads! Chardonnay is for women who want to look trendy and fashionable with a wine glass in their hand. I want the real meat of that grape--skin and all, and then aged in oak. You know, when it comes out of the cask in so many different colors of red and purple possible.

Morristown, NJ : What's your favorite restaurant in the United States?

Tim Zagat: I usually refuse to answer this question but if I was pushed on it, I think probably right now it is French Laundry in Napa, California. However, I would prefer to go on the basis of what thousands of people say rather than what I think. That's the basis of our guides. Fortunately, it turns out that French Laundry is the highest-rated restaurant in our 2002 San Francisco survey so it seems like I am in good company.

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