Ontario's Top 50 Courses

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Jeff,
I like Brantford, St. Thomas and Scarboro more than Essex.

Osprey Valley is a great place and I would like to get back to see the South Course, I think it is probably the best on the property and the Heathlands course while unique when it opened probably wins votes for being the original. I like the South's property far more.

Mad River gets hosed, I cannot understand that. Also, Beacon Hall and Taboo are the two most overrated courses on that list.

Perhaps the most devestating is to see Cataraqui so low. I think I voted it 8th in the list.

[Ian Andrew]

The manufactured mounding is being to show its 1990's age.  If Doug went back and re-created most of the interior containment mounding to mirror what he did at Eagle's Nest, I would put Osprey Heathlands in the top 10 in Ontario - better than Eagle's Nest.

Andrew,

1. Tell me how change the mounding without destroying the rest of the course?

2. How would 40 foot faux dunes look when the surrounding countryside is flat?

Eagle's Nest has the surrounding scale of the dump (200 feet), the 100 foot hills in the honey pot lands, and the 70 foot walls of the old gravel pit to provide context for the 40 foot dunes created between holes. Osprey valley was on a site that was almost flat thoughout the entire site. The mounds were created to seperate holes that are close by modern standards. Repeat, there is not much room between many holes for gigantic mounds. The remaining features were created to conduct water off the site.

I think your comment about a facelift is unfair, I think the course has held up very well "for what it is." A good public facility on a poor piece of land. Either you like the mounds or don't, but expecting to change them is rediculous.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Ben,

As usual, your comments show we're on the same page!

I'd probably place Scarboro ahead of Essex. And I suspect Brantford and St. Thomas (as posted earlier) might trump my home base as well. I look forward to seeing those two courses for the first time in the very near future.

[Wayne_Kozun]

The thing that I found unnatural about Osprey Heathlands is that there were all of these large mounds, supposedly like in Scotland, yet none in the fairway?  Why not have a few mounds smack dab in the middle of the fairway, like you will get in Scotland - Cruden Bay for example.  At times at Osprey I felt like I was playing in a half-pipe.  Maybe things have changed at Osprey as I haven't played the course in about six years but that is how I found it.

That being said I love the course and I always felt that Osprey Heathlands was far superior to Angus Glen South but it seemed to take the raters a decade or so to figure that out.

(The Score 98 ratings have Angus at 17, Osprey isn't even on the list.  In 04 Osprey is 33 vs. 41 for Angus.)

Its interesting how not holding the Canadian Open every year can cause your rating to fall.  Glen Abbey was #2 from 88-94, slipped to #4 in 96 and in 2004 is way down to #21.  Has the course really gotten so much worse?  How have courses like Jasper, Toronto GC, Hamilton, Capilano etc. changed so much that they are now so much better than the Abbey after always trailing it in the rankings?

[Gerry B]

"the atlantic is a much better ocean than the pacific"  

(quote taken from Woody Allen's movie Radio Days)

[Ian Andrew]

Wayne,

Who is on the list has more to do with change than why. The turnover at Score has been large recently. There are still a lot of voting conflicts on the panel. I compiled the votes for Bob about 10 years ago and the regional voting was definately present.

Another issue is very few panelists in the past travelled to see all the courses. Now many have the time, money and interest to do this. 10 years ago I was the only panelist who had layed Highland Links, now most have made the effort.

Of note: the kicked the architects off a few years back because of conflicts of interest and the courses that got hurt were not the Angus Glen's but the Cataraqui's and Lookout Point's of the the list.

I like Ontario Golf's list because they display the panelist's top 5 with that list.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Ian,

You're right about the 40 foot high mounding at Eagle's a) wouldn't fit and b) would look way out of context but I'm thinking about the smooth precise often repeated mounding that looks completely unnatural.  Some sharp peaks, uneven bowls and the like would serve this course a lot better.  Until recently, Osprey Heathlands defined inland links in Southern Ontario.  Now the competition is much stronger (all be it at retarded prices!).  IF, and you would know better than I, you could get on a D6 and start slashing away at those mini roller coaster mounds I think this course would rank right near the top.

[David Sneddon]

Jeff,

Only walked a few holes at Essex but it did seem really flat.  I would put Georgian Bay, Osprey Heathlands, St. Thomas, Deerhurst, and National Pines ahead of Essex based on my brief (and I do emphasis brief) visit to Essex.  I did enjoy Roseland the couple of times I played there.  Perhaps similar green complexes would be found at Essex?

Essex has more interesting holes than Roseland, and is more demanding in strategy.  I understand from jeff, that they are going to begin a renovation shortly - expanding the greens, bringing the exterior contours and mounds more into play etc.

Unfortunately, the powers that be (City of Windsor) have decided over the years to narrow Roseland's fairways and reduce the size of the greens.  The mounding and surrounds on the greens  are now collars of rough.

If they shaved down some of the mounds and contours then you'd have  excellent green complexes.  The bunkering is another story altogether - reduced the bunker heights, filled with some kind of aggregate that I wouldn't use to make bricks.

The only 'improvements' the past couple of years has been the removal of about a hundred trees, primarily due to ash bore disease and recently wind storms.

Despite the above, it is still my favourite local course.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Until recently, Osprey Heathlands defined inland links in Southern Ontario.  Now the competition is much stronger (all be it at retarded prices!).

Why are there no links courses in Ontario adjacent to the great lakes?  There are sand dunes around Southhampton on Lake Huron that are very reminiscent of Scottish linksland and I believe there are some similar areas on Lake Erie and Lake Ontario, such as by Sandbanks provincial park.

In fact how many courses are there in Ontario that are right on the great lakes?  The one that comes to mind in the GTA is Toronto Hunt but I don't think that it has more than one hole that plays along the lake, at least not according to the satellite shots that I can find as I have never played there even though it is less than 1 km from my house.

How about an Ontario version of Whistling Straits?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Wayne,

You're right. With all of the water front property Ontario possesses, it's amazing that we really don't have an excellent lakeside course in the province.

Permitting and environmental issues likely have something to do with it, particularly where there are sand dunes.

[Wayne_Kozun]

You're right. With all of the water front property Ontario possesses, it's amazing that we really don't have an excellent lakeside course in the province.

Permitting and environmental issues likely have something to do with it, particularly where there are sand dunes.

That's true of the recent past but I don't think envirnomental issues were of much concern 100 years ago or so.  Why wasn't Toronto Golf Club built 1 km to the south with some of the holes overlooking the lake?  Why wasn't Toronto Hunt built as an out and back course along the Scarbough bluffs?

Even St. Thomas - it could have been built a couple kilometres southwest on some stunning bluffs that overlook Lake Erie.  The area just west of the town of Port Stanley has farmland overlooking Lake Erie.  The only problem with such a location is that you can get erosion of such land which might have caused you to lose some holes.  But that is an issue at many holes along water - 18 at Pebble being a prime example.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Wayne,
The Sandbanks are protected and you would be amazed at how poor the land is only 2 km away. I have not seen many great sites along the water and with the price of real estate and permitting, I cannot forsee many options.

[Mark Saltzman]

Finally, a real authority weighs in...

http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/07/my-ontario-top-50-golf-courses.html

 

[Ronald Montesano]

onegolferstravels hasn't been spending much time lately in Canada, has one?

[Mark Saltzman]

onegolferstravels hasn't been spending much time lately in Canada, has one?

on the contrary, One played a new to it McBroom design this morning in Canada on Canada Day!

[Sean_A]

These lists are beginning to kill me.  They are unreasonably long just for the sake of hitting a round number - 50 in this case.  I know this may be perceived as anti-Canadian, but why would Ontario merit a top 50?  How many of those would you lot recommend people play?  Of those, how far is it worth going to play them?  After answering these three questions - what are the top whatever in Ontario?  More is not better, its just more.

Ciao

[Mark Saltzman]

These lists are beginning to kill me.  They are unreasonably long just for the sake of hitting a round number - 50 in this case.  I know this may be perceived as anti-Canadian, but why would Ontario merit a top 50?  How many of those would you lot recommend people play?  Of those, how far is it worth going to play them?  After answering these three questions - what are the top whatever in Ontario?  More is not better, its just more.

Ciao

Sean,

You'll be happy to hear Fairways Golf Magazine has now expanded the list to Ontario's Top 100!... http://www.fairwaysgolf.ca/article.php?id=2688

I actually do think these lists serve some purpose.  Fairways Golf and the One Golfer's lists were both intended for locals, not so much for golfers travelling to Ontario deciding where to play.  They always create discussion, at least on the Toronto based golf discussion site.

How many would I recommend you play?

All of them.

Travelling to play?  Well, you'd probably be limited to the top 13 or so, which I suppose are in the range of Doak 6 or higher.

Still, you would surely enjoy many below that.  Willie Park Jr's Weston Golf Club is straightforward but an enjoyable test from start to finish.  Stanley Thompson's Kawartha is surely the most underrated golf course in the country (http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2011/12/kawartha-golf-cc.html) and Doug Carrick's Muskoka Bay Club is one of the most dramatic courses you will ever see with huge changes in elevation, wildly contoured fairways and rock outcroppings the norm (http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/02/muskoka-bay-club-course-review.html).

I think there are about 800 golf courses in Ontario... a top-50 is not that outrageous (but somehow a top-100 is!).

[Wayne_Kozun]

These lists are beginning to kill me.  They are unreasonably long just for the sake of hitting a round number - 50 in this case.  I know this may be perceived as anti-Canadian, but why would Ontario merit a top 50?  How many of those would you lot recommend people play?  Of those, how far is it worth going to play them?  After answering these three questions - what are the top whatever in Ontario?  More is not better, its just more.

I would guess that over 50 of the top 100 in Canada are in Ontario so if you are going to do a top 100 in Canada then dong a top 50 in Ontario is not unreasonable.  And some parts of Ontario are totally left out, especially the Ottawa area.

[Sean_A]

These lists are beginning to kill me.  They are unreasonably long just for the sake of hitting a round number - 50 in this case.  I know this may be perceived as anti-Canadian, but why would Ontario merit a top 50?  How many of those would you lot recommend people play?  Of those, how far is it worth going to play them?  After answering these three questions - what are the top whatever in Ontario?  More is not better, its just more.

I would guess that over 50 of the top 100 in Canada are in Ontario so if you are going to do a top 100 in Canada then dong a top 50 in Ontario is not unreasonable.  And some parts of Ontario are totally left out, especially the Ottawa area.

Which begs the question - does Canada merit a 100 best of list?  IMO, the value of a list is essentially its capacity for recommendation.  If raters wouldn't recommend folks see these courses than what is the point of a large list?  Praise is being doled out when it isn't warranted.  This of course then devalues the list. 

Mark - okay, so the list is for locals.  Maybe that should be made clear.  I think this is why I will always prefer a list based on recommendation capacity and a way to make it clear what is recommended and how much is it recommended.  I look at the list and immediately think because there are 50 courses that it can't be trusted as a guide. 

Ciao

[Mark Buzminski]

The 'ratings' (or lack thereof) of Kawartha on these lists is ridiculous.   Such a GREAT golf course.

[Mark Saltzman]

The 'ratings' (or lack thereof) of Kawartha on these lists is ridiculous.   Such a GREAT golf course.

Mark,

One Golfer had it at 18th in Ontario.  Would you make the case that it should be higher?

I could see it, maybe, but I can't see it knocking off any of the very top tier.

[Ray Cross]

Glad I saw this today....I need a little help about courses/locations in northern Ontario.
!. Can someone list a few courses around North Bay; top 50 not necessary.

2. Is there a website about golf in the North Bay area?

We are there for a family reunion in late July and I need to get away for a while (4 or 5 hours per day)

Thanks in advnce.

Ray

[Andrew Cunningham]

Timberwolf in Sudbury - 1.5 hours to the West - or the plethora of really good tracks an hour or so South near Huntsville would be your best options.  North Bay proper isn't really know for it's golf.

[Mark Saltzman]

Timberwolf in Sudbury - 1.5 hours to the West - or the plethora of really good tracks an hour or so South near Huntsville would be your best options.  North Bay proper isn't really know for it's golf.

Andrew, have you played North Bay G&CC?  I know it's a Thompson but no one I've talked to has been.

What do you think of Timberwolf?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Hi Mark,

No, I haven't played North Bay G&CC nor have I seen it on anyone's Top "Whatever" List.  But if it is a Stanley Thompson it can't be that bad, can it?  As for Timberwolf, I'm guilty of recommending a course I can barely remember.  Of what I do recall it reminded me of National Pines a little bit with holes around some marsh areas.  I would definitely play it again if I was in the area because my reference for what is "good" has certainly changed over the last 15+ years.

Andrew