Ontario's Top 50 Courses

[Jeff_Mingay]

We've been discussing Canadian courses lately, so for whatever it's worth, ONTARIO GOLF magazine's 2005 ranking of the top 50 courses in the province was released yesterday.

Our friends Ben Cowan-Dewar, Matt MacKay, and Robert Thompson are on the panel.  

1. St. George's (Thompson, 1929)
2. Hamilton (Colt, 1914)
3. National GC of Canada (G. & T. Fazio, 1975)
4. Beacon Hall (Cupp/McBroom, 1988)
5. Westmount (Thompson, 1931)

6. Bigwin Island (Carrick, 2001)
7. Eagle's Nest (Carrick, 2003)
8. Redtail (Steel, 1992)
9. Devil's Paintbrush (Hurdzan/Fry, 1992)
10. Rocky Crest (McBroom, 2000)

11. London Hunt (Trent Jones, 1960)
12. Taboo (Garl, 2002)
13. Glen Abbey (Nicklaus, 1976)
14. Toronto (Colt, 1912)
15. Essex (Ross, 1929)

16. Brantford (Nicol Thompson, 1906)
17. Devil's Pulpit (Hurdzan/Fry, 1990)
18. Georgian Bay (Hurdzan/Fry, 2004)
19. Deer Ridge (McBroom, 1991)
20. Osprey Valley - Heathlands (Carrick, 1990)

21. Mississauga (G. Cumming, 1906)
22. Heron Point (McBroom, 1991)
23. Wildfire (McBroom, 2003)
24. St. Thomas (Thompson, 1924)
25. Magna (Carrick, 2000)

26. Scarboro (Tillinghast, 1924)
27. Angus Glen (Carrick, 1995)
28. Rosedale (Ross, 1919)
29. Copper Creek (Carrick, 2002)
30. Granite Golf (McBroom, 2001)

31. Oakdale (Thompson, 1926)
32. Deerhurst Highlands (Cupp/McBroom, 1990)
33. King Valley (Carrick, 1990)
34. Mad River (Cupp, 1991)
35. Lookout Point (Travis, 1922)

36. Cherry Hill (Travis, 1922)
37. Osprey Valley - Wasteland (Carrick, 2001)
38. Weston (Park Jr., 1920)
39. Eagle Creek (Venturi, 1992)
40. National Pines (McBroom, 1992)

41. Burlington (Thompson, 1922)
42. Summit (G. Cumming, 1912)
43. Crimson Ridge (K. Holmes, 2002)
44. Cataraqui (Thompson, 1930)
45. Timerwolf (McBroom, 1999)

46. Credit Valley (R. Robinson, 1972)
47. Thornhill (Thompson, 1923)
48. The Oaks (Muylaert, 1993)
49. Wooden Sticks (Garl, 1999)
50. The Marshes (Trent Jones Jr., 2002)

[Jeff_Mingay]

For the sake of additional interest...

Ben's personal top 5:

1. St. George's
2. Toronto
3. Hamilton
4. National GC of Canada
5. Devil's Paintbrush

Matt's personal top 5:

1. St. George's
2. Hamilton
3. Eagle's Nest
4. St. Thomas
5. Lookout Point

Robert's personal top 5:

1. St. George's
2. Hamilton
3. National GC of Canada
4. Toronto
5. Eagle's Nest

[Don Herdrich]

Toronto #14???  wow........there must be some really good golf in Ontario??  I agree with the personal rankings mentioned.......

[Steve_Roths]

How large an area does Ontario encompass?  The reason I ask is I am supposed to play St. George's and was wondering how far Hamilton is from there.  Or is Hamilton a close drive from downtown Toronto.  Thanks.

[SB]

Toronto was recently on Shell's WWOG, but it was very difficult to see much of the course.  Most of the camera angles were from the green looking back at the tee, and it was difficult to see any bunkers, other than around the greens.  Is there much trouble off the tee?  The 5th looked strong, and 18 looked like a fun one to play over and over.  Any other standout holes?

[Gerry B]

london hunt ahead of st thomas? -  what fight were they watching?

for those who do not possess a map - Hamilton is less than an hour from downtown toronto and about 40 minutes from st george's

[Matthew MacKay]

Toronto at #14 has likely been bolstered that high only because of a select few panelists who rank it very high (myself included).  The truth is that many (less architecture oriented) people feel TGC is very overated and gets by on history and prestige alone.  3,4,5,7,9,10,13,15,17 are all standouts in my mind.  The stretch of 8,9,10,11,12 is the most diverse string of 4's I've ever seen.  From a purely architectural standpoint, Toronto is easily one of the best in Canada.  They are about to undertake a restoration soon...not sure what that will involve???


Bill, I concur with you re:Hamilton.  The feeling of granduer and expanse at Hamilton on holes such as 9,10,17 contrasts nicely with the intamacy of holes such as 3,6,12.  A little nip and tuck at Hamilton would make it absolutely fabulous.

Steve: Hamilton and St. George's are about 45 min apart, on a good traffic day.

Overall, the OG Magazine ranking is fairly decent.  There were no parameters put on the panelists, simply list your top courses.  My surprises/disappointments at the top end of the list are Beacon Hall, London Hunt, Taboo.  To see some of the tracks listed ahead of Toronto, St. Thomas, Scarboro, Lookout Point, Weston, and Cataraqui makes me want to cry.  It appears that big and brawny still wins out in the end.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Funny, The Rock won Golf Digest's Best New Canadian course for 2004 (edging out Blackhawk GC!) but legitimately finished outside Ontario's top 50?!?!

[Robert Thompson]

Jeff: Re: The Rock. Interesting, isn't it? The editor, Ted McIntyre noted the same thing when I was doing some writing for the issue. That says something about the Golf Digest panel, doesn't it? Oops. I'm on that one as well....

[Wayne_Kozun]

Toronto #14???  wow........there must be some really good golf in Ontario??  I agree with the personal rankings mentioned.......

Yes Toronto should have been ranked higher but sometimes newer splashier courses will temporarily rank highly - I would say that this is the case for Bigwin, Rocky Crest and Taboo.

But yes, Ontario does have lots of good courses.  Check out this article by Lorne Rubenstein which appered in the Globe and Mail this weel

[Ian Andrew]

Some not included that are pretty darned good:

Highlands (London)
Sunningdale (Old)
Maple Downs
Whirlpool
Cutten Club
Oshawa
King's Forest
Ottawa Hunt

and then the biggest miss of all KAWARTHA!!!!!

[Matthew MacKay]

I love that you're on the Kawartha bandwagon, Ian.  There's a guy who knows his stuff!

We should post some pics when your work is complete.

[Jeff_Mingay]

The few pics of Kawartha I've seen make the course look to be fantastic.

I thought we were going to try to get together up there for golf, Ian? Any chance of that transpiring this year?

[Jonathan Cummingham]

Here's some interesting quote's form the issue.

"But while it can't be an exact science, OG continues to produce the most extensive and thorough golf course ranking that is conducted in this country"

"We provide our panel members with no criteria for determining their picks"

"Voters were required to identify which courses they had played from the list"

What they fail to mention is whether the panelists are only allowed to vote for courses they have played.  My second question being,  have they played all the courses they voted for, in the last two years?  You'd think this would be a requirement, based on how conditioning changes from year to year.  I guess if you don't dictate critiria, the conditioning of a course may have no influance on it being number one in the province.

I wonder what other magazines think of this self proclaimed "most extensive and thorough" ranking in the country.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I wonder what other magazines think of this self proclaimed "most extensive and thorough" ranking in the country.

Ask Bob Weeks - Score is the only other magazine in Canada that I am aware of that does rankings - maybe other provincial mags do but they aren't in competition with OG.

[Robert Thompson]

Gents: In response, I'd say I'm on both Score and OG's panel and that OG's panel is superior. Yes, voters are only allowed to vote on courses that they played and no, there is no criteria on having to have visited a course within two years. Since conditioning isn't a factor, necessarily, it doesn't matter if one has visited within that time frame. However, I'd think that in some cases, like the reno of St. George's, visiting within the last two years could be an important factor.

As for what Score might think of OG's bragging that it conducts the best poll, I'd say there really isn't much of a battle between the two. OG is very open about its process and raters (the top five for each panelist is published in the magazine), while Score only names the panelists, but doesn't let you know how they voted.

Here's some interesting quote's form the issue.

"But while it can't be an exact science, OG continues to produce the most extensive and thorough golf course ranking that is conducted in this country"

"We provide our panel members with no criteria for determining their picks"

"Voters were required to identify which courses they had played from the list"

What they fail to mention is whether the panelists are only allowed to vote for courses they have played.  My second question being,  have they played all the courses they voted for, in the last two years?  You'd think this would be a requirement, based on how conditioning changes from year to year.  I guess if you don't dictate critiria, the conditioning of a course may have no influance on it being number one in the province.

I wonder what other magazines think of this self proclaimed "most extensive and thorough" ranking in the country.

[Wayne_Kozun]

As for what Score might think of OG's bragging that it conducts the best poll, I'd say there really isn't much of a battle between the two.

They also don't completely overlap since Score's ratings are National vs. OG's provincial scope but there are probably close to 50 Ontario courses in Score's top 100.

[Robert Thompson]

Wayne: I agree. I've instant messaged you off list....

The reality is that the a handful of the top 10 courses in the country are from Ontario -- including St. G and Hamilton. It'll be interesting to see how the likes of Eagles Nest do once they end up as part of a revamped Score panel.

RT

[Jeff_Mingay]

It'll be interesting to see how the SCORE Golf panel treats The Rock.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Where's Forest City National???  I still can't figure out why Angus Glen South is so highly ranked.  And Essex?  Hmm....

[Jeff_Mingay]

Forest City National is in London, Andrew. I've never been there though.

Easy on Essex! Seriously, it's a wonderful golf course; definitely the best preserved Ross design in Canada. Perhaps a bit too flat to be great. But, name one course below it on the list you would place ahead of Essex?

Just curious.

For my tastes, it could be Scarboro; perhaps St. Thomas as well, but I haven't been there either yet.  

[Robert Thompson]

Andrew: I'm a fan of Forest City as well, but I think that changes to the 10th and 18th really hurt it. I also think ownership issues don't help.

What's wrong with Angus Glen South? I played it yesterday (for like the 60th time) and think it is a fine course with a variety of holes and makes a nice walk for a modern track. It is one of Doug's best, I think.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Jeff,

Only walked a few holes at Essex but it did seem really flat.  I would put Georgian Bay, Osprey Heathlands, St. Thomas, Deerhurst, and National Pines ahead of Essex based on my brief (and I do emphasis brief) visit to Essex.  I did enjoy Roseland the couple of times I played there.  Perhaps similar green complexes would be found at Essex?

Robert,

I would agree that Angus South offers a variety of holes, and challenging holes at that, but Doug's work in the last few years has only improved upon his earlier work (ie. Angus vs. Eagle's Nest, Bigwin, RiverBend).  Perhaps 27th in Ontario is not that far off but architecturally speaking it just doesn't do much for me.

[henrye]

Personally, I'll never be an admirer of The National, but I think it fits a mould that raters love - rolling terrain, great conditioning, a big feeling, super challenging.  When I play there, I feel like I could be at Lionhead, The Pulpit, Copper Creek, you name it.

I'm always amazed the Osprey courses don't score higher.  Is it the way the place is run that holds them back?

My beloved Lake Joe is long forgotten.

[Andrew Cunningham]

The Heathlands course at Osprey Valley is far and away the best of the three, but it stil could use a face lift.  The manufactured mounding is being to show its 1990's age.  If Doug went back and re-created most of the interior containment mounding to mirror what he did at Eagle's Nest, I would put Osprey Heathlands in the top 10 in Ontario - better than Eagle's Nest.