[James Bennett]

Tommy Naccarato said on the desert hot Springs thread
'there is Mission Lakes which is one of the worst Ted Robinson courses I have ever played. It's got a par 3 hole that's like 260 yards into the wind, that has an elevated tee 200 feet plus.'

At my club, we have a downhill par 3 of about 210 yards to a tight area of green. bunkered both sides and heavily wooded to the left.  It plays into the prevailing wind (often 15 to 20 knots).  It is generally despised by those who play it.  It replaced a hole (because of routing changes to relieve congestion on the course) of some 225 yards that was played downhill and at 60 degrees to the prevailing wind from the right.

The dislike of really hard holes into a prevailing wind appears common here, although our members loved a similar hole that quartered into the wind.

We have three other holes that play directly into the prevailing wind.  One is a par 3.5 with a heroic carry option and plenty of width.  Another is a par 4 tee-shot, Cape hole in style and again with heroic carry options and width.  The third hole of these holes is the shortest par 3 on the course (150 yards).

What are the best way to deal with the prevailing wind on a routing?  If you do have to play holes directly into the prevailing wind, are there some hole types that work better than others/  Are options/heroic carries/half-pars the best choice, or are there better alternatives?

[James Edwards]

James,

Prey tell - what is this home course you speak of?

[PThomas]

didn't/doesn't Pete Dye route his longer holes into the wind?

[James Bennett]

James Edwards

it is Blackwood, in Adelaide, Australia - a Doak 3.5.



Paul Thomas

Did Pete Dye's longer holes into the wind have any particular characterisitics?  For example, alternate routes down one side of the fairway or other, depending on how far the tee-shot and second shot could reach.  And, was fairway width provided?  Or were they hard, narrow, penal holes.

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Also, do architect's have a preference to route the course by using holes (or optional shots within a hole) that 'tack' into the prevailing wind, rather than play directly into that wind?

[Bill_McBride]

One of the most interesting aspects of the golf at Bandon Dunes is that there are two prevailing winds -- south in summer and north in winter.  So #4 at Pacific Dunes is driver-fairway wood in summer and driver-short iron in winter.  If it's not pouring rain!

How does that condition affect the golf architect's design?

[Tim Bert]

Bill,

I think you've got #4 backwards.  It plays with the wind in the summer and into it in the winter.  Bandon #5 might as well be a par five in the summer wind - it plays to the north, oppostie of #4 at Pacific.

[PThomas]

James -- I don't have any more info re Pete's techniques...I remembered reading it in The Confidential Guide, under Tom's review of Firethorn: "Pete's technique of routing the longer holes INTO the prevailing wind(to combat the length of the Modern golf ball)..."

if Tom reads this maybe he can elaborate

[James Bennett]

One of the most interesting aspects of the golf at Bandon Dunes is that there are two prevailing winds -- south in summer and north in winter.  So #4 at Pacific Dunes is driver-fairway wood in summer and driver-short iron in winter.  If it's not pouring rain!

How does that condition affect the golf architect's design?

Bill McBride

I haven't been to Bandon, yet .  Is #4 the only hole directly aligned with these winds?  How does it play, particularly into the wind?  Is there room to 'miss' the drive, and the shot to the green?

At my club, the winter prevailing wind is south-westerly, whilst the summer is south-easterly, with a few northerly's and a couple of calm days thrown in for variety.

[Tim Bert]

Several holes at all of the courses at Bandon are aligned with the winds.  I imagine all of the designs required a good bit of thought since the architects were dealing with strong winds in opposite directions depending upon the time of year.

I'd say that most of the holes that are aligned with the wind have generous landing areas, and provide the golfer with many options.

Both Bandon and Pacific have two par 4s sitting on the coast that run in oppostie directions, so whenver you play them you get one into the wind and one downwind.

[Bill_McBride]

Tim - senior moment?  You're right, #13 might as well have been a par 5 and #11, 140 yds, was a solid four iron.

James, Tim has it just right.  It is an interesting challenge to make those holes play well in either direction.  And as he says, #4 and #13 Pacific offset each other, as do other holes at Bandon.  The par 5's at Pacific do the same, with #3 and #12 running parallel and #15 and #18 the same in the opposite direction.

[Patrick_Mucci]

James Bennet,

Some, if not many of the "Golden Age" designers felt that two nine hole loops, clockwise and counter clockwise were the best way to take advantage of the winds.

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