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tomgoutman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Architect for Ross Renovation?
« on: August 01, 2005, 12:46:07 PM »
If you could pick any architect to do a Long Range Plan for Torresdale-Frankford CC in Philly, who would it be?

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2005, 12:53:28 PM »
Gil Hanse, who also lives in Philly.

Brian_Gracely

Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2005, 12:57:10 PM »
Richard Mandell, who just finished some very nice work at Raleigh CC in North Carolina.  He's based out of Pinehurst.  

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2005, 01:11:51 PM »
Ron Prichard.

See Beverly and Minikahda.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2005, 01:16:35 PM »
Tommyknockers.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2005, 01:29:53 PM »
IF you believe the pundits who opine that Ross had very little to do with the majority of the 400 courses credited to him,  merely hire a local farmer and see how it turns out.
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2005, 01:30:30 PM »
Ron Prichard.

See Beverly and Minikahda.

Add Wilmington Municipal to this list.  Also, add Kris Spence to the list of GCA's to consider.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2005, 01:44:51 PM »
Ron Prichard.

See Beverly and Minikahda.

Add Wilmington Municipal to this list.

and Charles River and Skokie (some Ross)...

Quote
Also, add Kris Spence to the list of GCA's to consider.
Beside the upcoming work at Cape Fear, he recently restored Mimosa Hills and Grove Park Inn.

Ron Forse did Lu Lu and possibly others....

Brian Silva did several....

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2005, 03:29:04 PM »
Forse/Nagle or Hanse.

Ron Forse and Jim Nagle are quite busy in the Philly area right now, and Gil Hanse has done some great work as well to both Ross & Tillinghast courses.

If you wanted a cheaper option you could hire Tom Paul and myself!! ;D  All we'd need is a few "Poulan's & Homelites" and we'd be in business.  

"I love the smell of woodchips in the morning!" ;)

Mike_Cirba

Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2005, 03:47:26 PM »
Tom Goutman,

Some good recommendations so far.  

If I were you and the good members of Torresdale-Frankford, I'd;

Go to see some restoration work by each one of them (most of them have done work in the Philly area).  Of those who haven't, day trips are always a pleasure!  

Of those who's work you like, have them out to see T/F, then schedule followup interviews and see how closely their vision matches yours.  At this stage, it's probably best to have an open mind to best benefit from their professional opinion.

I think one factor that you might want to think about is how much time an architect or their associates might spend on site getting the details right.  I do think you need to make clear upfront to each of the architects what the club's "real" intent is.  I mean, the term "restoration" gets tossed around these days to mean a lot of things that don't really sound like restoration to me.  

If the intent is to "toughen" TF, or "modernize" it, or move bunkers, or whatever, then you want to make those things clear upfront.

If you want to know who I'd select personally, all other things being equal, shoot me an IM offline.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2005, 04:11:07 PM by Mike Cirba »

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2005, 04:03:45 PM »
Tom,

Mike Cirba makes some very good points.  Ron Forse and Jim Nagle are doing all of the work for our Master Plan at Tavistock.  I believe they are also currently working with Manufacturer's.  

What we did at Tavistock was to put a short list together of Architects that we were interested in, and then scheduled a meeting/interview with them.

As Mike said, it is VERY important to first have in place, a clear and precise plan of what the club wants to accomplish.  

Mike_Cirba

Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2005, 04:13:52 PM »
Tom,

Also, if you're already tied into using certain contractors or other labor (such as inhouse), I bet they'd all appreciate you making that very clear upfront.

The choice of the shapers can be just as important as that of the architect, from what I've seen.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2005, 04:26:22 PM »
It is not important for the club to have a clear plan in place.  It is only important for them to have a clear set of goals for the project.  

I don't think it is critical to have a Donald Ross expert, either.  What you need is an architect who will respect the history of the golf course and the value of the original design ... assuming that the goal is to honor Mr. Ross's work instead of to "improve" upon it.  Someone who is not too busy with other work, and relatively local, should have the upper hand, so Gil Hanse would have to be very high on that list, if he wants the work.

I did a lot of my best restoration work ten years ago, before I was well known or busy with new courses.  So it's not important to get a "name" architect involved ... in fact, I think most of the names should be disqualified, for fear they will put their own mark on the course.  Assuming that's not what you want.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2005, 04:27:09 PM »
Tom,
Would you share what "needs" to be done to the course?
Irrigation?
How are the bridges?
Budget?
Best
Mike
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2005, 04:43:49 PM »
It is not important for the club to have a clear plan in place.  It is only important for them to have a clear set of goals for the project.  

In my post, I stated that the club needs a clear plan in place.  What I meant by that is...In my view, the goals for the project are the "main" part of the club's plan.  

I did not mean a plan from the architectural design standpoint.  That is best left up to folks like you. ;D

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2005, 04:46:04 PM »
Jamie:  I understood that you probably meant it the other way.  Unfortunately, though, a lot of clubs who are interviewing consultants already have formed too many opinions of what should or shouldn't be done, and they are looking for an architect who agrees with them instead of one who can think for himself.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2005, 04:49:09 PM »
TG,

I'd recommend you give serious consideration to a smart, hungry young gun with great technical skills and deep, heartfelt respect for the Classics; a person who is up-to-date with the latest construction methods and technology, and who has the understanding through playing and studying the great courses; a personable individual with professional demeanor and the ability to communicate effectively with all types of people; someone who will give the club and its members good advice in formulating realistic goals and spend as much time as necessary on site to make sure that they accomplished.  Gee, Mike Nuzzo might just be the right man for the job!  

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2005, 06:29:32 PM »

It is not important for the club to have a clear plan in place.

It is only important for them to have a clear set of goals for the project.
[/color]


Truer words were never spoken, but, with one caveat.

The clear set of goals set by the club should be a prudent
set of goals, and that's not always possible.
[/color]

« Last Edit: August 01, 2005, 06:30:18 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

TEPaul

Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2005, 07:25:14 PM »
tomgoutman:

What you need to do is get out there and see some of the other Ross restorations and talk to the clubs that did them. In this town they're GMGC, LuLu, Riverton, Aronimink, St David's and Kennett Square is starting.

Prichard, Forse and Hanse.

Send me an email or IM. I'll show you around.

Jason Mandel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2005, 08:31:27 PM »
Tom,

You should also talk to Bobby Weed, who did wonderful restoration/renovation work on Ross courses Timiquana, which recently hosted the US Senior Amateur as well as the University of Florida Course.

Locally, if you would like to see the work he did at White Manor, please let me know.  

Jason
You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

TEPaul

Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2005, 09:02:45 PM »
tomgoutman;

At GMGC's recent restoration Hanse's contractor was Ambler's Pennick Arimour.  He's worked with them a lot on new and restoration construction. They're good. My recollection of the primary reason we hired Gil was he lives here and he does a lot of his own shaping and he pretty much keeps one of his own guys on site. That could be Jim Wagner, who's excellent, and so is Ron Forse and his associate Jim Nagel.  Ron Prichard does not have that type of company support but he's really excellent too---very research oriented with Ross.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2005, 10:29:47 PM »
Jason Mandel,

Would you recognize Timaquana as a DJR golf course if you had no prior knowledge of the architect of record ?

T_MacWood

Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2005, 10:53:30 PM »
Is Torresdale-Frankford worth restoring?


TEPaul

Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2005, 12:34:44 AM »
That's probably something for Torresdale Frankford to decide. Or do you think that's something for a panel of expert researchers and expert architectural historians from out of state to decide?  ;)

T_MacWood

Re:Architect for Ross Renovation?
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2005, 07:08:14 AM »
Tom G.
Are you thinking renovation or restoration....or combination?

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