[Tom_Doak]

Of the top 50 courses in the world according to GOLF Magazine (in their 2003 poll, the 2005 one isn't out yet):

How many are par 72 courses?

How many are over 7,000 yards long?  (Although I'm sure it's gone up in the past two years, with so many courses adding tees.)

How many return to the clubhouse at the ninth hole?

How many have fescue-based fairways?

How many cross a public road?

Don't start counting them yourself ... just take an educated guess based on the relative "importance" of these factors to having a great course.  I'll tell you the numbers tomorrow.

[Jonathan Cummings]

My guess -

par 72 - 35

over 7000 - 45

return to club - 42

fescu-based fairways - 5

Cross a public road - 4


I did not look anything up, I just pulled these out of my ass.

jaycee

[TEPaul]

How many are par 72 courses?

22

How many are over 7,000 yards long?  (Although I'm sure it's gone up in the past two years, with so many courses adding tees.)

24

How many return to the clubhouse at the ninth hole?

31

How many have fescue-based fairways?

2

How many cross a public road?

A public road? 12

A road?  19

Oh, you said the world? Well, that's different.  

[Michael Dugger]

Par 72 - 29

Over 7k yds - 42

Returning nines - 43

Fescue-based fairways - 9

Cross a public road - 3

[Andy Troeger]

Par 72: 31
7000+ 29
Returning:41
Fescue:8
Road:8

[peter_p]

Michael,
It's top 50, not top 100.

40
40
26
6
10

[Tim Bert]

Par 72 - 39
7,000 - 34
Clubhouse Return - 29
Fescue - 22 (Based on a comparison of my response to others, I likely know nothing about the fairway grass of the top courses in the world)
Public Road - 6

[mike_beene]

72-21,over 7000-14,nines returning-34,public road-20

[Don Dinkmeyer]

72--43
7000--15
9return-34
road--6

[Doug Siebert]

These are just guesses on what the actual numbers are, not assigning importance to the various factors like Tom indicated.  Otherwise I'd put crossing a road at 0, for instance, because I don't really consider that an ingredient for a top course.  It can work, but it isn't something you'd try to achieve if it can be avoided...

I assume the yardage will be calculated based on what the yardage was when they did this, and not the yardage today.  I'll add a further guess that 4 of the courses that were not 7000 yards when these ratings were done have now exceeded that total from the tips.


Par 72 - 34
7000 yards - 33
Return at 9th - 37
Fescue - 14
Cross a road - 7

[John Kirk]

Par 72 - 20

7,000 yards - 30

Return to clubhouse - 20

Fescue fairways - 20

Cross a public road -  12

[JLahrman]

How many are par 72 courses?  20
How many are over 7,000 yards long?  25
How many return to the clubhouse at the ninth hole?  35
How many have fescue-based fairways?  15
How many cross a public road?  10

[DMoriarty]

Dont really flollow the lists, but I dont think many of these things matter much so I guessed accordingly.

How many are par 72 courses?
17

How many are over 7,000 yards long?
14

How many return to the clubhouse at the ninth hole?
13

How many have fescue-based fairways?
26

How many cross a public road?
33

[cary lichtenstein]

90%
10%
90%
90%
I forgot the rest of the questions

[Sean_A]

Par 72   33

over 7000   27

return to clubhouse   34

fescue   14

road   11

Ciao

Sean

[John Foley]

my swag:

par 72 - 39

over 7000 - 34

return to club - 47

fescu-based fairways - 12

Cross a public road - 13

[Mike_Sweeney]

How many are par 72 courses?

26

How many are over 7,000 yards long?  (Although I'm sure it's gone up in the past two years, with so many courses adding tees.)

26

How many return to the clubhouse at the ninth hole?

26

How many have fescue-based fairways?

3

How many cross a public road?

18

[Alan Gard]

Par 72 - 33
7,000 - 28
Clubhouse Return - 33
Fescue - 18
Public Road - 6

[Tom_Doak]

Okay, here are the answers.  My statistical check is actually from the 2001 list, so the numbers may have changed slightly, but I don't know how important that is.  I'll re-do it in a month once the list shows up again.

How many par 72 courses?  Only 19 out of 50 (no one guessed that low).  15 were par 71, 12 were par 70, and four were par 73.

How many over 7,000 yards long?  In 2001, 23 out of 50.  Twelve of them were under 6,800 yards.

How many return to the clubhouse at the ninth hole?  23 of 50.  Obviously there are some out-and-back links in there, but Pine Valley and Pinehurst #2 and Merion and Cypress Point don't return, either.

How many have fescue-based fairways?  21 out of 50; all the links courses plus Sand Hills, Pacific Dunes, and Whistling Straits.

How many cross a public road?  Obviously, this is something an architect would attempt not to do, yet 12 of the top 50 courses in the world cross a public road, many of them hitting over it.

The best stat:  29 of the top 50 have no cart paths; only three have continuous paths.

[George Pazin]

How many par 72 courses?  Only 19 out of 50 (no one guessed that low).

Better brush up on those reading skills - the right honourable Dave Moriarty guessed 17.

What do all those numbers mean? Seems few people really learn the right lessons from the classics. Rather, everyone seems to think they're classics because: 1) they're old 2) they've hosted majors 3) they were designed by dead guys and 4) they're tough to get on.

Lotta lessons life has to offer us - few people learn the right ones.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Tom,
Here is the list that you posted in the past.
I'd saved it in a safe place and didn't want to cheat...
I'm looking forward to the update.

Analysis of the Top 50 Golf Courses in the World
(GOLF Magazine, 2001)

19 are par-72 courses
15 are par-71
16 are “others,” mostly 70 or 73

23 return to the clubhouse at the ninth hole;
27 do not, including Pine Valley, Cypress Point, Pebble Beach, Pinehurst #2 and St. Andrews.

29 have no cart paths at all (20 of these never allow golf carts);
18 have some cart paths, and
3 have continuous cart paths (Pebble Beach, Muirfield Village, and Riviera)

31 have an adjacent practice facility, but
19 do not, including Pebble Beach, Pine Valley, St. Andrews, Sand Hills and Crystal Downs.

12 of the top 50 are less than 6800 yards from the back tees;
15 are between 6800 yards and 7000 yards;
23 can be stretched to 7000 yards for championship play.

28 of the top 50 are built on sand;
Several more are built on sandy loam;
But several are built on clay, including Augusta National, Oakmont, Olympic, and Riviera.

21 of the top 50 have fescue or bent/fescue fairways (all the UK courses plus Sand Hills, Pacific Dunes, Whistling Straits);
15 of the top 50 have bent grass or bent/poa fairways;
8 of the top 50 have Bermuda fairways (including Augusta, Pinehurst and Royal Melbourne);
4 have ryegrass fairways, 1 zoysia, and 1 kikuyu grass.

48 of the top 50 have bent grass or fescue/bent greens;
Seminole (I think) and Casa de Campo are the only exceptions.

[DMoriarty]

The best stat:  29 of the top 50 have no cart paths; only three have continuous paths.

Do you know how many of the top 50 courses in the world are unwalkable?  Very difficult walks?

Here's a bit trickier question:  Of the 19 par 72 courses, how many of them break from the now common 10 par fours, 4 par threes, and 4 par fives formula?    

[Alex_Wyatt]

Another question:
of all of their courses what % of tom's, rees jones' and tom fazio's are par 72.

[Tom_Doak]

Alex:

I've opened eighteen courses to date, and another four are basically finished.  Of those, the only par-72 layouts are:

Apache Stronghold [par 37-35],

The Rawls Course at Texas Tech [par 36-36, but only because they asked me to change the second hole to a par 5 after we'd started construction], and

Sebonack [par 35-37, because the client asked us to change the 18th hole to a par 5].

So I'm three for 22, a .136 batting average.  I think it's fair to wager that there are not many architects who have a lower percentage than that.

It's not that I hate par 72.  I just don't care if it's 70 through 73, and if you're going to dial it at random, it will seldom come out perfectly balanced.

Dave M:  The three courses with continuous cart paths are Pebble Beach, Muirfield Village and Riviera, all relatively easy walks.  None of the top 50 are unwalkable.  I would guess that Augusta National is the toughest walk of the 50.  Pacific Dunes and Sand Hills are both at that end of the scale, too.

[Andrew Summerell]

Tom,

Would you ever consider suggesting to a client a par of 69 or 68, if you felt it was the best routing solution ?

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