[CHrisB]

These pictures were taken on July 24th; the week-long 100 degree heat wave was finally broken and the playing conditions were very pleasant.

There was a recent thread about Bayside:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=18702

The approach to the par-5 1st if going for the green in two:


The view from the top of the fairway on the reachable par-5 4th; a drive finishing here has a view of the green, but a drive to the right side of the fairway gets sucked down a slope, forcing a blind shot over a massive dune ridge.


The tee shot from the middle tee at the long par-4 6th:


Looking back from behind the 10th green (I like windmills on golf courses!)


The controversial but awesome 11th (652 yards).


Looking down the ridge for the 2nd shot at the 11th:


In front of the 11th green. This area is quite narrow with steep fall-offs on both sides.


The 205-yard drop-shot par-3 13th called "Humility":


The shot into the downhill tumbling par-5 15th if going for the green in two. I had a downhill-sidehill 4-iron trying to hit that target, which has fall-offs on every side. In the background is the potentially driveable par-4 16th.


Looking from behind the 15th green, showing the steep fall-offs behind the green.


The 17th (par-3, 150 yards). I love this green, as it uses the bunker and slopes brilliantly. From bottom to top, you can use the fairway-cut slope right of the green to maneuver the ball toward the pin, and from top to bottom, you can use the slopes or even put it through the bunker because the lower bunker edge is essentially flat.


The 18th:

[RJ_Daley]

Chris, nice pictorial.  While the practice facility is very nice, don't you think it is a pity that the Alps putting course under the veranda of the clubhouse isn't in shape to use it?  I love the clubhouse setting too.  It looks like she came through the heat pretty good.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Chris,
Nice pictures.
Thank you.

FWIW -
JPGs can compress to about 1/20th the size of BMPs.
Easier on your server, and the dial up guys.

Cheers

[CHrisB]

Oops...thanks Mike. I have converted them to JPG format and they should be coming up more quickly now.

[Tony_Chapman]

Chris - I've not been to Bayside (and I live in Nebraska for Pete's sake!!!!). Could you compare the maitenence to Wild Horse. Is it comparable. Heck if its even 90% of WH it will be pretty darn good!! Thanks.

[David_Tepper]

Chris -

Where in Nebraska is Bayside located? Thanks.

DT

[CHrisB]

Tony,
The maintenance at Bayside is certainly not at the level of Wild Horse, but on my visit it was still pretty good. The greens were little higher and only slightly less true, and just as firm as Wild Horse. The fairways were quite tall, and not running as fast as Wild Horse. I got a few fliers from the fairway. The bunker bottoms were also a little more packed and bouncy than at Wild Horse. But overall it was very acceptable and if I had not played Wild Horse the day before, I wouldn't have noticed it as much.

David,
Bayside is located a few miles northwest of Ogallala, NE, overlooking Lake McConaughy. Ogallala is about 50 miles west of North Platte along the interstate (Wild Horse in Gothenburg is about 35 miles east of North Platte and Sand Hills is about 60 miles north of North Platte).

[Jason Hines]

Does anyone remember how far it was off the tee to the ravine on 18?  I completely forgot about that carry until I saw your pictures Chris.  I am looking forward to going out there again, looks like I need to.

Jason

[CHrisB]

Jason,
According to the yardage book the fairway ends at 104 yards to the green, so on a 415-yard hole from the back tee that would be 311 yards of room out there. It's 277 to the end of the fairway bunker complex on the left. But of course the tee is very elevated and the fairway slopes away so it plays quite short--I hit a 5-wood and a wedge in fairly calm conditions. I found it hard to aim far enough right off the tee--the slope will kick the ball right to left into the fairway, but it is blind on that side and I wasn't quite sure where the high stuff started.

[Adam Clayman]

Was fortunate today to play with one of the principles. In the very near future Dan Proctor will be visiting to talk about altering a couple of holes.

Some of the suggested changes will be to make the Par 5 fourth hole much longer playing to the current 5th green. Not much dirt will need to be moved to create a snaking par 5 that currently plays very very short for all but the shortest hitters. The current 6th would then become the 5th possibly changing it's Par to a long two shotter from the current short 3 shot hole.
 Now for the controversial. The current 7th is a great short Par 4, and talking Dan out if it will require either many beers or some very persuasive arguing. In it's new possible configuration, fairway grass will be added to the right of the current green front right bunker cascading down the hill to the current eighth green's fronting bunker. The approach shot will play to the current 8th green. I played it that way today, I have to say, it does work. The options off the tee are still plentiful. The new approach angle will foreshadow the slanted tenth fairway and is all carry over the eighth greens right side bunker. Leaving alone the great bunker that fronts the current 8th, making it a left side beast, but, also utilizing what is now long, as a right side kick plate. (Was that visual understandable?) I played a six iron off the current 7th tee which went farther left than I'd have liked, resulting in approx. 190 yards, from a flat lie, into the current 8th green. Jason played his tee shot farther down the current 7th fairway and slightly right. Leaving approx. 130 yards from the downhill side hill lie that foreshadows the 10th perfectly. Good Golfers will have the temptation to try and drive this green, especially down wind. The current ninth will be scraped, save for a few teeing grounds to what will become the new seventh, heading NNE towards the lake. On our ride down to this area I was struck by the quality of the ground's movement, with several options on exactly where to place and orient the new 7th green (Par 3). Now we come to the most spectacular ground and potential holes on the entire course. A long uphill Par 5 that sweeps right to an almost peninsula like green site jutting out towards the water. The new ninth will be a Par 4 along the waters edge. Jason feels this could become the best hole on the course. One draw back, the hike back to the club house will be a beast. But at Bayside the numbers are 95% of the golfers ride.

All in all it was a fun day visualizing and appreciating how you real architects get to work on life's biggest canvas. Of course all of these speculated alterations are subject to change when the real deal shows up early in Oct.

Dick, I did feel the changes will be for the better. Not only for the golf course but also for the business model.

Almost forgot, One major change on 11. Jason wants to run the hole down into the canyon. To me this will be the most difficult and potentially costly. But one good thing... It's what Whitten suggested years ago.

[Kyle Henderson]

Which bay is nearest to Bayside?

Along that line, has anyone else seen the "Pelican Beach" golf course not far outside of Mullen, NE?

I must be lacking in the geograpy dept.

[astavrides]

I wish i had seen these pics when I lived in denver.  I would have made the trip.  On the other hand, some of the holes look very penal around the greens.

[RJ_Daley]

Adam or Jason, If this golf course's front 9 were designed by the names and rep.s of Tom Doak or Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw (which in terms of the quality and excitement and creativity of that 9's design and uniqueness - it very well could have been) would you all be so ready to crap on a masterpiece?  I'm not so into the need to forshadow the 'uniqueness' of the 10th with a shot-playing pattern at the new 6th, ruining one of the great all time short par 4s, to play a forced dogleg oddity to forshadow another oddity.  I'm not sure what you mean by the new hole green's pennisula site, but is that also a forshadowing to one of the most unique pennisula's I've seen on a golf hole, that being the 11th green.  Or, maybe I just don't have the correct understanding of a pennisula.  Are you perhaps using the term pennisula in place of a cape?  I don't know.  I never walked down there east and behind the range.  

Bluntly, I'd say business model, schmidness model...    If they aren't coming frequently enough now to play what is there, I can't see'em coming to play the new longer and more spread out proposed course that looses a great deal of the original character.  I'll pull a Melvyn here, and say I'd stand with an old cane and crack those cart ballers in the shins for taking carts on that front 9.  I'll forgive them for carting the back, however.  

Bayside is just such a unique course, with a couple of holes that are controversial to say the least on the back 9, yet such a compact wild, creative and exciting front 9.  I just don't know what to say.  A fellow has to make a living, I realise.  I just can't see how what is proposed is going to make the place any more successful/profitable.  How much more will they have to charge for rounds to pay for new construction?  If they somehow get a few more lots to sell, after developing them septic-water and road, and selling them, then that's it.  They are sold, a small profit is made on the lot sale, and then it is gone out of your hands.  At least the operation of the golf course goes on, if you can somehow draw and grow a clientele.  

And, I don't have the slightest idea what Dan is going to say.  On one hand he may say, 'sure I can use the work'.  On the other hand he may want to puke.  It sounds like one of those Hobson's choices to me.

[ed_getka]

I agree with Dick regarding the front nine of Bayside. It is absolutely one of the best nine holes of golf you will ever play. The back nine has some great holes like #17, but the land was just so much more severe back there that I'm not sure what could have been done. My recommendation has always been to play the front nine twice and take a cart and drive the back nine (which is a brutal walk BTW) to check out the good holes.
    Anyone doing the Wild Horse, Sand Hills trip needs to see Bayside at least once.

[Adam Clayman]

I did expect this visceral response. That's why I said IMO it will work out well. Dick. There's more than just lots. Jason has built two four plexes with limited room to build more. So the new room near the ninth green will allow a few more. Also there are plans to have PGM program and interns for Elton giving him room for intern housing. As for the lots some of the new ones created by these changes will be premium. The long range forecast for the lakes level returning to its former glory are spurring many home and lot sales. One thing that will hopefully ease your fears is Jason's desire to put the golf first. Btw those two four plexes are rented out nightly for $250. A steal even if you're only a twosome. One other note. People laughed at Jason Bonnie and Cliff when they started this project. But now ten years later they are still there providing a unique golf experience. Sure their decisions may not jibe with yours but as I said the possible new routing could improve the golf course for everyone. Because currently the shortish aspect of the front nine leaves the modern long ball better player making disparaging remarks.   

[Kalen Braley]

In some of those pics, it seems to be channeling at least a little bit of Wine Valley, or is that visa versa!!   

Those pictures certainly got my attention.

[Adam Clayman]

Kyle, While you were joking, the lake has many Bays. Bayside has their own. To fill you in on the geography, Lake McConaughy is basically the North Platte river that was damed up back in the 50's (could've been late 40's). It has some of the best Walleye fishing and is the only recreational tourist attraction in Nebraska outside of Cabela's.

Looking at the 11th hole proposed change I was struck yesterday at how perfect the ground will work as a fairway, up the north side of the ravine. Currently the south side is where all the errant shots go, and, is much more severe in slope than the north side. I can envision the new hole starting out taking advantage of those natural rolls, then providing the golfer with the option of going back over to the south side of the ravine for a better angle to a green that will be tucked into a hollow on the north side, almost directly across from the current green.

I too have mixed emotions about losing the 11th. As much as my personal record on that hole goes, I should be offering to pay to blow it up. But, it is so unique, and challenging, that when one does score well the satisfaction level must be very high. I say must because I have yet to accomplish that.  

Dick, Yes my term peninsula green was likely inaccurate. The hole does have cape like aspects to it, but, I'd hate to call it that, yet. It reminded me somewhat of the green sites at the 15th and 17th at Teeth of the Dog. Or another obscure reference, one of the green sites at Sandpiper in Goleta, Ca.. I think the 13th or 14th (?) green with the ravine in front jutting out towards the water's edge with somewhat of a skyline affect.

Please don't dismiss these ideas on my say so. While Jason and Elton have their notions, they are both smart enough to yield to Dan. Plus, Jason did recount how when they started, he knew absolutely nothing, and, when he would throw out his ides to Dan and Dave, they shot down most, if not all of them. So, it wouldn't surprise me if Dan's influence will greatly impact these changes for the better.

Believe me, we were like kids out there yesterday pretending we could see the new holes. I was struck by how many different ideas could be born. To me, that just translates to how great all the micro contours are on this sandy site..

 

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle, While you were joking, the lake has many Bays. Bayside has their own. To fill you in on the geography, Lake McConaughy is basically the North Platte river that was damed up back in the 50's (could've been late 40's). It has some of the best Walleye fishing and is the only recreational tourist attraction in Nebraska outside of Cabela's.

 

We drove by that lake, but I didn't think it qualified. At any rate, thank you  for the explanation.

[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

Thanks for the detailed comments.

I too would have mixed feelings about the suggested changes to the par-5 11th. I like what the existing hole does and frankly the concept of what it provides is a template for what Doak did with the 15th at Cape Kidnappers -- the idea that balls can fall off both sides.

Clearly, the focus point for what Bayside needs is tied more towards the front than the inner half. Ironically, it was the inner half which was the focus point of what Ron Whitten addressed in his review of the course a few years back.

I've always believed Bayside to be one of the more fun and entertaining public layouts one can play and clearly the fees are on the low side of things.

One of the most fun and great holes I have played is the par-3 17th -- just a superb hole -- especially when the pin is cut on the top center side above the bunker.

I'll be watching this with much interest as matters proceed. Best of luck to all the parties invovled.

[Brad Swanson]

The photos of the 11th at Bayside are reminiscent of several of the holes at Cape Kidnappers (which I have only seen in photos).  Peninsula type holes that narrow towards the green with steep drop-offs on all sides.

[Brendan Dolan]

I like the 11th just the way it is!  I eagled it on my one go around Bayside !

[Adam Clayman]

Everyone,
 Answer truthfully.

If you owned the property and you had a chance to sell those six lots along the top of the ridge at premium prices AND you could still have a great par 5 hole where the houses built on those newly found lots had little impact on play, or the visuals, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? 

[RJ_Daley]

Just so I got this site picture right again...  You say the lots would occupy what is now the higher ground that is basically the length generally of the 9th hole, FW & G, that have views over the poractice green, driving range teeing line and ravine and range, down to the lake, where there will be a new par 5 between the lots (about a quarter mile from the shore) and the shoreline.  So the lots will have a view of the range, and lower across the new par 5 corridor, then the lake?  And, that will bring in premium real estate lot prices?  And, again; will they be multi-unit condos or timeshares, or estate lots?  They'll be surrounded by a remanant of prairie golf, such that it was, already dominated on the western side of #4 and 5 by multi-unit housing?  But, the new par 5, 4th will be somehow better or as good in its extended form as the par 5 #4 as it is; and the extended par 5 will play to the wild par 3 green tht was #5, and the extraordinary designed short par 4 7th will be altered, lengthened and doglegged right across a sahara like bunker to a previously constructed green that was built to take a shot from 90* different then the remodelled, but it will be a foreshadowing of 10?  But, this has little impact on play or visuals? 

What would I do... honestly?  I'd try to answer whether this course, in its location, unchanged in its design will  always be a loosing enterprise, or can it make me a living.  If I see a way to make a living with the current excellent and pretty highly acclaimed design, I'd leave it and go develop the property down by the lake for the housing.  If it is always going to be a looser in profitablilty, I'd try to get out of the golf business and in doing so, I'd ask if the redesign and lot sales are actually a sure fire big profit opportunity.  Then I'd take the profit and run, and I'd still try to sell the course, because it is always going to be a looser in the new remodelled entity as well. 

I guess I"d ask myself what I'm going to do with those lot profits (assuming there are good profits to be made).  You can spend it, and live high off the hog for a while, or you could plow them back into another R.E. development, if that is your thing.  But, I'd get used to the idea that all you will have left is a second tier resortish course, out of the way in the middle of nowhere, where better courses will get more play, and probably eventually be forced to find a way to peddle it or live with the mediocrity.  But, that is just me...

[Jim Nugent]

How many lots have they sold so far? 

[Sean_A]

I will tell you what #11 looks like



Its hard to tell, but it doesn't look as if the deep ravine to the right is used at all for this hole.  If not, is it just too severe?

Ciao

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