DeVries's Mines Set to Open

[Peter Pratt]

Mike DeVries's Mines GC will be opening in August in Grand Rapids, MI. The website is www.minesgolfcourse.com. Par 70, with 5 long par 4s. Low greens fees. I can't wait!

Anybody seen it yet?

[Peter Pratt]

I should have added that there are 3 short par 4s, too.

[Jeff_Mingay]

The Grand Rapids area has the "DeVries Golf Trail"... a two- or three-day trip there to play Pilgrim's Run, Diamond Springs and now, Mines GC would be a blast! And it's very inexpensive as well - $40 at Mines! $25 at Diamond Springs! Crazy cheap, really!

Congrats Mike... and Joe Hancock, too, who I know was a big assist to DeVries at Mines GC.

[Chris_Clouser]

I just looked at the course overview on the website.

Did I miss something or are there only 28 bunkers on the course?

Not that this is a negative, but that is a low number in comparison to the trend in public courses that I have played lately.  I hope to get up to the Mines sometime this year and check it out.

Chris

[Jeff_Mingay]

Chris,

It's true. There are very few bunkers at Mines GC. I was talking with Mike D. about this a few weeks ago.

There's also limited bunkering at Mike's Greywalls course, at Marquette GC. In fact, Mike thought he'd never use fewer bunkers than he did at Marquette... until Mines GC was complete, that is!

Marquette is overloaded with contour, hence the lack of sand hazards. I understand the situation at Mines is similar.

[RJ_Daley]

From the web graphics of the holes, it looks like a very modest (dare I say minimalist) approach.  Mike seems to have stayed with his theme of one par 3 with 90* angles of attack from different teeing grounds.  With a sparing number of bunkers, as depicted, and indication of some interesting contours in fairways, I would be interested if Mike will come on here and discuss his ideas.  I suspect that the course was lightly draped over rolling land, but can't really tell from what is offered on the website.  

[Gary_Nelson]

I toured the course last summer during construction.  There was quite a bit of excavation on hole #5.  I think they were removing and selling some sand... by removing a hill.

Joe Hancock was the on site construction manager.  Hopefully he will see this thread soon and post his comments on the building process.

[John Moore]

The Grand Rapids area has the "DeVries Golf Trail"... a two- or three-day trip there to play Pilgrim's Run, Diamond Springs and now, Mines GC would be a blast! And it's very inexpensive as well - $40 at Mines! $25 at Diamond Springs! Crazy cheap, really!

Congrats Mike... and Joe Hancock, too, who I know was a big assist to DeVries at Mines GC.

You could include a round at Angels Crossing just 77 miles south of Grand Rapids. Not a DeVries but similar in philosophy and style to the others. Those four courses would make for a terrific weekend of golf. Total greens fees?     $175!

John Moore

[Joe Hancock]

I'm sure Mike will see this thread and respond, but....thanks! I was just out there today, and it looks better and better all the time.

The previous posters have done a nice job of highlighting some features such as hole length variations and bunkering. I think the topography will surprise anyone familiar with the Grand Rapids area. It's hilly, but not brutally so. But, some of the land forms are quite abrupt, making for some good opportunities for deception in club selection and reading of the greens. There is a lot of sand on the property, which allowed some dunes to happen on holes #5, 8 and 9. They tie in visually with sandy dunes off property, on a high horizon line.

Currently, bunkers are being edged, greens are being groomed and topdressed, and washouts that occured during grow in are being fixed and all the other things that normally happen before a course opens.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here before is the irrigation water. It is coming from groundwater that is flooding the abandoned gypsum mines 150 feet below. The property doen't have any surface water, so the mine water was the only viable option other than buying municipal water. To make a long story short, this water is so high in dissolved salts that it literally defoliates the trees where water hits them. It's unbelievable considering the typical water quality in Michigan. I think it has slowed our turf establishment, and I'm thinking it really affects the bentgrass on greens and tees...both sand based soils. Instead of the normal wilting cycle one sees when a turf goes under drought stress, this turf just "checks out" quick. The superintendent has his hands full with this water.

RJ,

As far as some of the routing over the land....well, Mike isn't afraid to find a 5 yard wide crown to a landform and declare it the landing area! Some fairways are wide and subtle, others will make you pick and choose where you want the ball to end up after it gets done rolling...because it won't stay on the line in which it was hit.

Thanks for the comments, and hopefully the golf course will be ready within the next few weeks or so. We'll keep y'all posted!

Joe

[Jeff_Mingay]

Joe,

The water situation doesn't sound good, at all. Is there any type of filtration system available to remedy the problems you anticipate?

Just curious,

[Anthony_Nysse]

Joe,
  Any thoughts as to getting a sulfer burner for your irrigation water, as many of us do down here?

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Joe Hancock]

Jeff,

We checked into acid injection, sulfur burners, and a water treatment that utilizes radio frequencies. None of the treatments would make an appreciable difference in water quality. For anyone who would know the numbers, we're dealing with TDS(Total Dissolved Salts) around 2800 ppm. That's a lot.

Joe

[Anthony_Nysse]

Joe,
  That's higher than some of the water we deal with here. My boss came from Seabrook Island in Charleston-He said his said content was so high the pine trees lost their needles and the azalas, that usually bloom in the spring, would remain dormant.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[RSLivingston_III]

Joe,
Let me know when you think the course is ready and I will come over and shoot a few shots to post on GCA.
ralph

[Don_Mahaffey]

Joe,
The TDS are very high, but I'm guessing the water also has a lot of Ca and if so that will help keep the SAR lower, which to me really is the key number when dealing with salty water. One tip I'd pass on to the super is to know where all the greens drains are and to be sure and keep them open and draining. IMO, you can probably grow decent turf in your climate with poor water but deep infrequent irrigation is your only chance for long term success. I would seriously consider an irrigation management program that includes a flushing cycle on the greens once a week. That will keep them open and keep the salts from building up. No doubt you guys are already all over the salt management plan but I can tell you from experience it takes great diligence and the salts will show no mercy on the turf during times of stress. Like you noted, I've seen cool season turf literally check out in hours during hot summer days where light frequent irrigation was used with water that had TDS of 2000+. Good luck and hope to see you this fall.

[Mike_DeVries]

Did I miss something or are there only 28 bunkers on the course?

Chris,

Actually, there are 31 bunkers on the golf course, plus 2 large dunes on holes 5/9, and some old waste area on #8.  There 4 in the driving range/short game area, and the second hole of the par-3 course has a bunker (DEEP!).

The land has some great contour to it and presents the strategy in many places, so bunkers are not necessary in many locations.  It is affordable, public golf and the presentation of the land and mature trees of the site gives a very classic parkland look, yet it is not crowded and there is much opportunity to view other parts of the course along your round (This is an element that really provides an intimacy to courses and gives a nice sense of camaraderie to a course).  Being affordable, maintainability of the course and its budget is paramount and minimizing the number of bunkers, but building and maintaining them well, is important.

Mike

[Mike_DeVries]

There's also limited bunkering at Mike's Greywalls course, at Marquette GC. In fact, Mike thought he'd never use fewer bunkers than he did at Marquette... until Mines GC was complete, that is!

Marquette is overloaded with contour, hence the lack of sand hazards. I understand the situation at Mines is similar.

Also, the rock outcroppings and walls at Greywalls also lend an element that replaces bunkers in some places, so bunkers weren't necessary.  With a different kind of drama, an excess of bunkers would be sensory overload (I still might be accused of this at holes 11 and 13 at Greywalls, which have 1/2 of the course's bunkers in total, but those holes work very well with their bunkers.).

[Mike_DeVries]

Joe,
Let me know when you think the course is ready and I will come over and shoot a few shots to post on GCA.
ralph

I have some basic shots on digital -- if somebody would like, I can e-mail them to you to post.

[Scott Witter]

Mike D or anyone else who knows the course...

Can you please tell me how these courses (DeVries Golf Trail) can survive (be affordable) in the market at $40 & $25?  I'm all for affordable golf and it is essentially what my practice is based on, but realistically, does not the debt load and the shear expenses dictate something closer to $50 or $60.

Is this part of Michigan unusual to the market?  I know most of Michigan fairly well and there are many high quality golf courses at much higher price points...what gives?

[Mike_DeVries]

As far as some of the routing over the land....well, Mike isn't afraid to find a 5 yard wide crown to a landform and declare it the landing area!

Yeah, that is perfect!!!!

[Mike_DeVries]

Can you please tell me how these courses (DeVries Golf Trail) can survive (be affordable) in the market at $40 & $25?  I'm all for affordable golf and it is essentially what my practice is based on, but realistically, does not the debt load and the shear expenses dictate something closer to $50 or $60.

Is this part of Michigan unusual to the market?  I know most of Michigan fairly well and there are many high quality golf courses at much higher price points...what gives?

First, Jeff, thanks for the "DeVries Golf Trail" marketing propaganda (not sure it doesn't sound too promotional, but hey!).

Scott,

Tha cost of constructing high quality golf is time, not money, when you are dealing with good soils and terrain.  If your land costs are minimal and you concentrate on good management of the property, then you can develop a good business plan that makes sense and money.  Many of the high-end resort courses are adding golf with big name designers and adding an amenity to broaden their market appeal, thus their costs are higher, and therefore their fees are higher.  

The Mines, Diamond Springs, and Pilgrim's Run are affordable golf (PR is actually high-end for Grand Rapids) where the golf is the focus, not a bunch of superfluous extras that golfers don't need.  Plus, Grand Rapids is a conservative town and dollar value is a priority for many, so inexpensive golf is readily available (see Joe at Grand Island).

[Sean_Tully]

Mike,

You were not kidding about the absence of bunkers at the Mines. I did notice a number of bunkers at the 9th hole. That bunkering style looks familiar, did you get some of your plans mixed up?

Look forward to seeing some pics of the course, I did see some of the grow-in that you had. Does the camera pick up the flow of the ground, or does one need it underfoot to get the true feel of the course?

I have some updated pics for you regarding the 13th green that I will send to you tonight. Only one more to go!

My best,

Tully

[Mike_DeVries]

Tully,

Yeah, they are a bit heavy and with a jagged tooth edge, but not the "nubs" that are at Meadow.

See you Monday.

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