Heat in the Northeast - How Do You Cope?

[Jim_Coleman]

    The super at my course in Philly (bent fairways and greens) seems to be dealing with this brutally hot weather by keeping the course quite wet - little in fairways and balls leaving large pitchmarks in greens.  The course remains green, but pretty soft.  Is this the norm?

[wsmorrison]

Jim,

I would think with the super-regional US Am qualifying coming up next week (I'm caddying for a friend of mine) that he might be taking some extra precautions.  Maybe not.  Merion is taking precautions, but they've got the Amateur.  I think Matt is letting things grow a bit more than usual at Merion and not stressing the grass with rolling and heavy equipment.

Maybe what's going on at our club has to do with the Take All Patch and Pythium breakouts. Anthracnose seems to be rearing its ugly head around here as well.  I don't know why our super is doing what he's doing.  If you see him, please ask.

If what Warren is doing is the norm, I'll tell you who is practicing outside the norm with fantastic results; Scott Anderson at Huntingdon Valley.  His techniques and philosophy are very interesting and unique.   Scott May at Manufacturers worked under Scott Anderson at HVCC.  Scott May is practicing much of what he learned from Scott Anderson and has really turned things around at Manufacturers.

These practices enable the course to withstand some of the problems that are ravaging our course, Llanerch, Lehigh, Waynesboro, and others.  It isn't this simple, but a bit of it is that dryer courses coming into wet weather certainly can handle the amounts of rain we've been getting better than courses with typical watering practices.  There is so much more than this, especially with the practices that allow such little watering to exist.  

I was over there today for the PA Amateur and Scott did not syringe or water last night because of the possiblilty of what happened today, about a 1/4" of rain in an hour.  The course rebounded well although it could not be the perfect maintenance meld it was yesterday when Tom Paul played a practice round.

Scott is doing marvelous things at Huntingdon Valley and some of his practices will be surprising to many.  The good news is he and Ran will have an interview soon and everyone on here will get a sense of what he's doing with organic materials rather than chemicals and with biodynamics, rock dust and paramagnetism.

Keep an eye out for the feature interview in the coming months.

[Bill Gayne]

Our course is also being very heavily watered. We were commenting on Saturday morning that we were in the middle of an extreme heatwave and drought and at the same time our feet were soaked and we had mud on our balls.

We have bare spots developing where water would normally puddle. The only hypothesis we could come up with is that the water puddles as it normally would and the extreme heat in combination with direct sun raises the puddling water to a tempature that kills the grass.

[Jim_Coleman]

   It may be that heavy watering is necessary.  I actually hope it is, as I am fond of our super.  That's why I'm curious how others are doing.

[wsmorrison]

Jim,

I travel to a lot of golf clubs and enjoy meeting the superintendents.  They seem to be the ones at clubs that take care of archival material and know the history of the architecture as well as most of the club historians.  They are also very open about the work they do and the reasons for it.  Some are so far ahead of the curve that they are as deserving of as much praise as most of us give to architects in their endeavors.

I think if more members listened to the expert points of view of superintendents instead of making uniformed demands that are usually unrealistic our courses would be far better off.

Richie Valentine, Mike McNulty, Matt Shaffer, Scott Anderson, Bill Spence, John Chassard, Joe Pantaleo, Scott May, Sean Remmington, Mark Michaud, Matt Burrows, Adam Jessie, Lenny Blodgett, Todd Bidlespacher and John Gosselin are some of the many that have been extremely helpful to our book project and also my understanding of maintenance practices and turf for golf.

I hope that each of us at our clubs get to know the superintendents and ask them questions.  An informed membership is less likely to make mistakes and place blame where it may not belong.

There's so much going wrong at so many clubs in our area that is weather-related, we'd all do well to ask questions and understand the situation.  I spent about 2 hours riding around and chatting with Scott Anderson today, it was quite a lesson.

Jim, if you speak to Warren, please let us know what his thoughts are, I'd be very interested to know.  I'll be over there tomorrow and I am going to try and speak with him...if he's not too busy getting ready for next week.

[RJ_Daley]

Jim asks:

Is this the norm?

Cultural responses to turf are as varied as the ever changing weather, the types of soil, and species and cultivars of turf.  These factors vary from course to course, and even can vary by very short distances.  There is no norm.  

The proper response to one set of circumstances can be quite different, right across the road if there are different soils, cultivars, and irrigation-drainage systems.  

That may be an excellent argument for finding a competent superintendent, then being loyal and supporting that super for the long run.  Having long term standards and master plans that generally identify maintenance meld goals over time is far better approach than becoming too preoccupied with responses to short term weather related abberations.

[BCrosby]

You thick-necked, cheese steak eating Philly guys need to  embrace the heat, make the furnace your friend. You want hot? Come spend a couple of weeks in Atlanta in August. You're getting no sympathy from me.  

On a more serious note, my club had trouble maintaining its bent greens in the heat for nearly a decade. Everyone said add more water, so we did. And the greens got worse and worse.

This year a new super came in and said apply less water, not more. Suddenly the greens are the best I can recall. Something about extra watering does not allow the grass to "close down" to protect itself from the heat. Doesn't make sense to me either, but damned if it isn't working.

Bob  

[wsmorrison]

Bobsy,

When you come north to escape the cauldron in Atlanta, you've got to spend some time with Scott Anderson.  We'll play 27-holes there and chat with one of the most interesting fellows you've ever met in golf!  See you soon, I hope.  Mike Y says he's coming up in the fall. And you?

Best,
Wayne

[BCrosby]

Wayne -

I will give you a buzz. There are a couple of things afoot.

But in the meantime, drink more iced tea and stop wearing navy blue shirts.

Bob

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Coleman,

You can't mess with Mother Nature.

It's adjust or perish.

The great majority of golf courses are softer and slower.

I would imagine that anyone trying to keep a golf course fast and firm in these conditions won't have a golf course by September 1st, nor a job by January 1st.

[wsmorrison]

I don't think there is anything to be done to keep things firm and fast now unless you've taken about 3 years to institute a program that will allow firm and fast even under these conditions.  According to TEP that is exactly how Huntingdon Valley was playing yesterday.

If anyone has questions for Scott Anderson, relay them to Ran and maybe he'll use them.

[Jim_Coleman]

   Thank you Pat.  Your words are comforting.  I'm serious.

[Joe Hancock]

Turn up the water, spray a lot more chemicals because of the water, and enjoy playing in the mire for the next month and a half. It's what the golfers have come to expect, after all....it plays like crap but it looks good.

I know thats a harsh stance, and I also realize it's what has to be done to save one's bacon....but it's not good for golf and not good for the environment.(!)

For the majority of clubs in the NE and the Midwest, the course consists primarily of poa annua (I wonder why?). It's amazing that, if one has the opportunity to let some die in the name of mud reduction, that poa will rapidly grow back once the weather breaks.

I'll get blasted for this because I don't understand Big Club politics, agronomics, etc., but that's ok...

Wayne:

You're right about the institution of a "drying out" program. It takes a long time, but it's well worth it terms of playability especially.

Joe

[Gerry B]

at least the greater philly area has had rain - toronto is suffering drought like conditions with intense heat. I have never seen such low levels of water in our ponds and creek beds. Our maintenance crew has been spending many a late night syringing the roots of the greens. While they are not perfect -they are firm as is the rest of the course.

Just returned from a philly / jersey shore weekend :

Pine Valley - greens were slow -they were watering certain  greens during the day  

Merion - much slower greens than my round there in mid june (at least 2 on the stimpmeter)-  I suspect they are being cautious as the US Amateur is a few weeks away.

Philly Cricket (Flourtown Course) -again the greens were slow and soft as were many of the fairways - but was very playable

Atlantic City CC- Course was very soft and played much longer than the 6500 + yds on the score card- very little roll and some wind made it seem like 6800 yds plus. The wind  was a blessing as the local insect population(greenheads) took the afternoon off for the most part -save and except holes 14-16 which are situated next to the marshlands. The maintenance crew were watering some of the greens during the late morning / early afternoon. Overall the course was in great shape.

[JESII]

Jim Coleman,

You can't mess with Mother Nature.

It's adjust or perish.

The great majority of golf courses are softer and slower.

I would imagine that anyone trying to keep a golf course fast and firm in these conditions won't have a golf course by September 1st, nor a job by January 1st.

Patrick,

I sincerely invite you to spend the morning on Wednesday at Huntingdon Valley with me. The final round of the PA Amateur is due to be played (late morning into early afternoon), and you will be blown away by what you'll see. It is currently late Monday night with a hot (95*+) and humid (107* heat index) day scheduled for tomorrow and three hours of rain last night and this morning. You can be sure the course will have plenty of bounce and Scott will be quite secure in his post. Please let me know if you're available, perhaps a couple of other Philly guys are interested.

[wsmorrison]

Jim,

I was there yesterday and Craig Disher and I will be there today.  Sorry, can't make it tomorrow.  Any chance we'll see you there today?  That course is a wonder of architecture and ideal conditioning.  The membership understands the maintenance meld and Scott can get it done with his fascinating approach.

Jim is right, Pat.  Come on down!

[cary lichtenstein]

You guys are a bunch of pussies complaining about the heat.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

The midwest is in the same boat as the northeast.  I played 6 courses in the midwest a few weeks ago and all were soggy despite being in a drought.  The heat from the previous week had everyone watering heavily.  I had more than a few drivers back up in the fairway.

[Doug Siebert]

My home course switched to A4 on the greens and A1 in the fairways and tees the fall before last.  They've had to increase their watering somewhat in the last few weeks with the increased heat (and I assume especially recently with several days over 100F and heat indices of 115, but I'm not stupid enough to play when its that hot so I haven't been out there for about 10 days)

Its not like it was in early June with even full PWs not leaving any identifable mark on the green, but it is much different than they used to maintain them, where it rarely got dry enough to have to search for one's mark and sometimes was soft enough even without rain that the ball would tear out that little postage stamp sized divot upon landing (I never knew whether I should replace those or not, now I don't have to worry about that any longer, at least on that course)

Like TEPaul always says, A4 loves dryness.  I suspect it could be maintained even more firm but that the extra water is about greenness.  While A4 may love dryness, unfortunately most golfers love greenness even more.  Luckily the heat is gone for a while, 70F and a much-needed light rain falling all day today!

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

   Very interesting discussion with several good points made. Every course is as different to manage as is it's Membership. I am looking forward to reading the interview with Scott Anderson. He does an incredable job at HVCC and I have gotten his advice and input on several things. Credit also needs to go to the Members at HVCC who have allowed time for Scotts programs and ideas to work. It was also very nice to be included in a list of great Superintendents by Wayne. Thanks.

    To answer the Jim's original question: Eat lots of Rita's waterice

[Patrick_Mucci]

JES II,

Courses can only achieve the conditions that you and Wayne allude to if they make a multi year effort to get there.

A club that I'm familiar with is considering that path now.

But, for courses that haven't embarked on a systematic program toward that end, it's adjust or perish.

In the ultimate, one would look to Newport as an extreme example.

A membership has to be willing to make the sacrifices over the course of a few years to get their course into the condition you reference at HV.  It doesn't happen by accident.

I applaud HV's efforts, and wish that more clubs would follow their lead.

I"m old enough to remember brown fairways as the norm in July and August.

I'm hoping to get to the Philadelphia area before the leaves are off the trees.

[Dave_Miller]

You guys are a bunch of pussies complaining about the heat.  

Quassi:
Is that why you take off to places like Colorado in the Summer
Best,
Dave

[John_Conley]

You guys are a bunch of pussies complaining about the heat.  

Quass:

Nice that you can be so cavalier.  The participants thus far on the thread haven't been so worried about 90-whatever and humid, just what 90-whatever and humid might do to their golf course.  Some of the posters are even Supes.  Most of the rest hold or have held positions at the club on greens committees and the like.

Florida and the rest of the southeast are hot.  I know, I was just in Destin, Gulf Shores, and Mobile.  These areas also speak a different language when it comes to grasses.  GN1, GN2, Tifeagle, Tifdwarf, Champion, Miniverde, Zoysia, etc....  Notice how those don't overlap with Penncross, Pennlinks, Rye, and what you'll find in the Northeast... the subject of the thread.

Sorry to rant, but I find your insensitivity to their plight puzzling.  We are looking at people making a best-efforts attempt to maintain enjoyable conditions for patrons of their courses.  To some this is their profession.  Telling them that it gets hot elsewhere hardly helps.  Perhaps I'm missing that between the lines you actually offered a constructive suggestion for them to change grasses.

[Steve Curry]

John,

"Notice how those don't overlap with Penncross, Pennlinks, Rye, and what you'll find in the Northeast... the subject of the thread."

You forgot Poa.  

Steve

[TEPaul]

"It may be that heavy watering is necessary."

JimC:

I'm no agronomist but talking to all the supers I have for some years now, I'd definitely say THAT DEPENDS.

It depends on what you have going into these kinds of heat waves. If you have a golf course whose grass is used to a good deal of watering you probably do need to keep it over irrigated in this kind of heat. I think it's pretty safe to say that courses like that are a whole lot more susceptible to problems in this kind of heat-ie diseases. Over irrigated courses are relatively shallow rooted and they're usually the most chemical dependant and in a real way that ain't all that healthy to start with---at least not in a natural sense.

This is a large part of what a super like Scott Anderson is into. His point is his grass is so deep rooted and so used to dry conditions because he's watered SO LITTLE FOR SO LONG his grass survives just fine in these kinds of heat waves----ie his roots are do deep.

The real deal with the agronomy of a course like HVGC which has taken years to get the way it is, is years of minimal watering AND LACK OF CHEMICAL applications has basically killed off all the turf that doesn't survive heat like this. As the saying goes "Only the strong survive".

HVGC has not only been into minimal watering for years they have been into a real strong program of ORGANIC agronimic processes---ie they go very light on chemical application.

Grass like that can withstand this kind of heat just fine and obviously a whole lot better than over-irrigated and highly chemical dependent agronomy. HVGC is into dryness anyway (firm and fast) so this is no big deal. Those guys don't really irrigate it they just use water to cool it down (syringing and light irrigation applications).

Another factor for heat resistance with HVGC and Scott Anderson is he does not believe in sand topdressing and hasn't done that in years. He feels sand heats up the agronomy too much. He uses an organic soil topdressing from a company out of the mushroom capital of the world---Kennett Square Pa. He feels its organics are better and he says it doesn't generate the heat on his agronomy that sand topdressing does.
 

[Tags:]

Tags: