What is the Fascination with fast play?

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Doug,

Your bring up an excellent point about Par 3s... pace of play is helped immensely if you let the group behind you hit up while you are preparing to putt. It gets people through the bottleneck.

Kyle-

  That's my story for tomorrow, for the car ride to The Red!

Although, several weeks ago, I played The Creek on a Friday morning.  Rather than go back to NJ for the afternoon, I decided go go over to BSP and play Red.  

  Well, I try to move reasonably quick.  On 2 tee, I am ready to hit, 4 wood in hand when the group ahead turns the corner (my shot for that hole is a draw just to the corner).

I hit, good shot, whatever.  I turn around, and 2 of the guys in my group were sitting on the tee box having a cigarette.  
They hadn't pulled a club, or anything.  

Couldn't believe it.  

Another time, the day after Shinnecock last year (Monday), I played Green.  2.5 hours to play 6 holes.  

Someone was literally standing in the middle of 7 fairway talking on a cell phone.  The next group was on 8 tee.  

I walked over to them and told them, "get off the G.D. phone".  

I'm not proud of this, but it did happen.  I was frustrated with pace that day, and to have three groups on 6 tee and another on the green, I had just about had it.  I walked off right after that.  

They were beginners, but it doesn't matter.  However, If they looked like redanman, they can do whatever they damn well please  

We'll talk about this more tomorrow.  

[Doug Braunsdorf]

REBlanks,

The first year we introduced a slow play policy times went from close to five hours to 4:05.

Pat-

  Slow play policies seem to work for private courses, where there is recourse and enforcement for infractions.  

  Does the same work for municipal courses, though?  

  Rangers at BSP have told me, we don't have any real power to do anything--so they're useless.  

  I've seen rangers at daily fees remind guests of pace of play issues, but I've never seen them tell a group to pick up and move to the next tee.  

[Kirk Gill]

I agree, Douglas, that the issue is more difficult to resolve on daily fee courses. There are many more comparatively inexperienced golfers. Their lack of ability and their lack of knowledge of etiquette slows them down. Many novices are unwilling, given $50+ green fees, to pick up and carry their ball to the green after a series of hacks. They want their "money's worth." They're willing to search in depth for every lost ball, and there's a lot of them. The courses themselves, in an attempt to get as many groups on as possible, have shortened the interval between groups to the absolute minimum, creating frustration even when the pace of play is decent. If you want to walk, you'll find drives nipping at your heels all day long. The beer cart girl comes around four or five times a round..........

I know the rangers do what they can, but they have a tough row to hoe.........

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Kirk-

  I'll tell you, I've seen and heard the rangers out at Architects tell groups to speed it up.

Good for them.  

  I was talking to a few guys at BSP (Red Course) on that Memorial Day Friday, before teeing off, and we were talking about pace of play.

  One guy hypothesized it could be because people generally play stroke play, especially if it's a group of four strangers at a public course.  

  Sometimes in playing publics, if I've had a bad hole, once I hit my ESC, ball goes in pocket.  That's it.  But this doesn't happen very often, because I'm good    (Yeah, right.)

Like Pat alluded to above, there's nothing more frustrating than having backups and looking a few holes ahead and seeing a group picking their noses and dawdling about.  

[George Pazin]

It shouldn't really be different for a daily fee. You would just need to make it abundantly clear that you are expected to keep up, or you will be asked to leave. Whether or not you wish to refund the balance would be the course's discretion.

The throngs that you will have rejoice will far outnumber the few who wish to dawdle and whine.

[tonyt]

Sounds like a good system.  

But until your club establishes an allottment of 3:30, the group that finishes in 4 hrs is not out of line.  

Wrong. Like a speed limit on the roads, allotted times give you a boundary. Taking the full allotted time when the group in front is way ahead is like driving at the full speed limit in rain and with thick fog. If the group in front of you takes 4 hrs, you won't stress because they finished within those bounds. If they finish in 3hrs 40mins, then so will your group unless you are held up by an incident on the last hole or two.

Allotted times are there as maximums, not fine line minimums. It is not your responsibility to use all your time, merely because it is permitted.

As has been said above, in many cases, a foursome playing in just over 3hrs 30mins are NOT doing anything fast, and are not contributing to a "fast play" problem. And a group taking 4hrs with nobody immediately ahead of them are doing all sorts of things wrongly or just taking too long.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Doug,

Rangers at private or public facilities will create confrontations which aren't good for anyone.

Some time ago I suggested that perhaps the best method of dealing with slow play at public facilities might be through the pricing mechanism.

If the fee was $ 50.
Charge $ 75 and indicate that if play is completed in four hours or within 8 minutes of the group in front of them that they'll have the slow play fee refunded.

There is no question that slow play affects the bottom line at public courses, hence, the fee for usage should be time related, like almost everything else we encounter in society.

The longer you're there, the more you pay.

[Brent Hutto]

Lately we've been playing a Stableford game for the Saturday dogfight at my club. We don't do it the way you're supposed to by scoring based on net score per hole (using the handicap stroke allocation numbers on the scorecard) but rather everyone plays as though it's scratch Stableford points and then they add your handicap strokes at the end.

Anyway, this means anything over double bogey doesn't matter to your score. So I generally pick up my ball if a double bogey putt doesn't go in the hole or if I've taken a bogey worth of strokes and am not on the green yet. I'm perfectly capable of grinding out that quadruple bogey if it's a medal tournament but there's nothing fun about it if it doesn't count.

Not another soul in the club plays that way and I have gotten a couple of funny looks like I'm trying to cheat or something. American club golfers want to play every stinking stroke and ESC limits or Stableford scores be damned. Yet some of them are always wanting to be allowed to move the ball in the fairway or get mulligans on the first tee so it ain't because they're purists.

Why even enter the stupid Stableford contest if all you want to do is play with yourself all day like your medal score of 88 matters. As I've said previously, some people just like to play slowly.

[tonyt]

Tony,

At what point is that next shot hit? It's the little things like that that are the difference between a 4 hour round and a 4 and a half hour round. Frankly, as a player, I prefer a continuous flow to the game, and not a lot of start stop (at least minimally) within the foursome.

Ideally, the group will just be ready when the group in front leaves the green.

Kyle, your views are the same as mine. It doesn't have to be defined to the minute degree. The problems discussed here are those when a group feels justified in taking what they believe to be a "reasonable" time to play a round, even though they have finished 20 minutes or more behind a group in front of them.

Unless the group in front is a carting fourball of single figure juniors who race around in 2hrs 50mins, the all important etiquette of the game we have alll been taught is to remain immediately behind the group in front, not merely within an allotted time.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Why even enter the stupid Stableford contest if all you want to do is play with yourself all day like your medal score of 88 matters. As I've said previously, some people just like to play slowly.

Brent-

  That sounds like a lot of fun, and a good way to pick up the pace a little bit.  

[Kirk Gill]

Charge $ 75 and indicate that if play is completed in four hours or within 8 minutes of the group in front of them that they'll have the slow play fee refunded.

An excellent idea. Of course, the extra $100 the course will be making from the offending foursome will be scant consolation to the groups who have to play behind them.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kirk Gill,

You have to start somewhere.

You can either ignore the problem or try to solve it.

I think it's a good start.

Maybe the number is $ 50 or double the green fee, but the concept makes sense.

[Kirk Gill]

You have to start somewhere.

You can either ignore the problem or try to solve it.

I couldn't agree more. I think that many times the issue on public courses is just ignorance. I've played with many friends who just don't think enough about how their actions impact those who have to play with them, and behind them. They need someone that they respect to tell them that it's okay to pick up and carry the ball up to the green rather than just hack away endlessly, to only take one practice swing, or to leave that ball for someone else to find.

Confrontation with rangers was mentioned earlier, and I'm sure it happens, especially with those golfers who are more about having a few beers than getting a few birdies. I think your idea of an economic incentive would cut into the problem, if the courses would be willing to implement it. A few years ago it would have been easier to do, but it's not as hard to get a weekend tee time on a public course now, so some might not be willing to tack on that price........

[Chris_Clouser]

The worst case of slow play I ever saw was when I played with my brother-in-law and his aunt at a local course last year.

First off, they were hitting the ball everywhere...fifty yards at a time.  They were in a cart and were constantly going back and forth on the fairways.  They each took about ten practice swings when there was no one in front of us and the time it took to putt was an eternity.  Beyone anything Ben Crane, Jim Furyk or Phil Mickelson would ever dream of.

I told them more than a few times that they played way too slow.  Their response, "I paid my green fee, I can take as long as I want."  My response, "Actually, I paid your green fee.  So let's speed it up."  They were better, but it still took us almost 2.5 hours for nine holes.  

Afterwards I went into the proshop and told the pro that it will never happen again and apologized for all the groups we held up.  The whole car ride home all I got was flack about how I was rushing them the whole time and that was why they couldn't concentrate on their game.

That's why it took each of them over 50 shots.  

I haven't played golf with either ever again.

Somehow, I feel like this is a dominant attitude on public courses out there and maybe on a few privates.    

[astavrides]

I am sympathetic with the tone of the subject line.  I find it somewhat ironic if people have rush through what is supposed to be a recreational activity.  Sometimes I think it becomes a badge of honor to say how fast you played (I'm not intentionally speaking of anyone in this forum), rather than being conscious of how much you enjoyed it, how well you played,  etc.

I, too, wish golf didnt take so much time and have plenty of other things I would like to get home and do.  I think part of the problem that we can't do too much about is the legacy of 18 holes rather than 8 or 12 or something.  I try to stay in the present though and enjoy the time I am spending.  

Another part of the problem is that in the US, one is required to post their every score for handicap.  I very rarely compete with my handicap so I have no interest in inflating it.  Rather I use it as a marker of how much progress or lack thereof I am making with my scores.  I like to make progress.  

I think it is VERY important though to be considerate of ones playing partners and other groups on the course.

I am also bothered by absolute statements of how long a round should take.  I dont begrudge anyone their 3 hour round.   I hope no one begrudes me my 4 hour round if I am playing alone AND holding no one up.  Why does it take me 4 hours?  a) I don't like to hit until I'm completely ready  b) I like to spend my five minute allotment looking for a ball, and c) I like to do the best I can on every shot. Sometimes that means looking at a putt from all 4 sides.  Sometimes that means taking a while to pull a club or deciding what kind of shot to play.  Most tour players do this kind of analysis, and I am convinced it helps scoring.    If I am more concerned about being social than in my score, or need to keep up with a certain pace of play, or if I only have 2.5 hours to get 18 holes in before dark, etc,  I compromise on a, b, and c.  Part of life is compromising.  I accept that.  Its not my nature to walk up to a five footer, take a cursory glance and swat at it, but I realize many people are happy to do that, and thats ok.    Its a big world, as someone here says.  

Another factor is the course.  If you are playing your own private club that you might play 50 times per year, your pace will naturally be faster than if you are playing a nice, difficult course for the first time, perhaps with long distances between greens and tees.  On the latter, not only will you not know where to hit it, where not to hit it, how the putts break, etc, but you might also want to check out the scenery and the architecture.  A private course player will, in general, have a much different idea of what is a normal time to play a round of golf than a public course player who travels around a lot.  And they might both be right (or wrong as the case may be).  

Some slow play (like at Rancho Park in LA) is not caused by the players themselves, but by the spacing of tee times (6 minutes, the last time I was there),  Like an overcrowded freeway, even if everyone wants to go fast, it cant be done.  

Lastly, there are two kinds of slow players.  One who is aware that he is slow and tries to be considerate, and ones who are unaware.  The latter unfortunately are more common, and they bother me too.  


 

[Kyle Harris]

Pat,

For a course to do that... they need to keep VERY good accounting of exactly when a group teed off and what not. I am the only starter I've ever seen who actually noted exactly what time a group hit their first tee shot on the tee sheet, what time they made the turn, and what time they finished.

Also, why should a group have to pay more because a group in front didn't let them play through?

I can just see way too many arguments happening or excuses flying that really can't be proven without extreme effort from the course - effort that would exceed most customers idea of service.

As for playing through a group, it is only beneficial to play through a group if and only if there is AT LEAST a hole open in front of the slow group. We're talking two full shots. Your group would also have to be at least a full shot ahead of the group behind you in order to note have it muff up play. Otherwise, it becomes an absolute mess. Also, playing through implies that you play the hole with the group and then putt out first on the green... most people don't do that.

[Patrick_Mucci]

For a course to do that... they need to keep VERY good accounting of exactly when a group teed off and what not. I am the only starter I've ever seen who actually noted exactly what time a group hit their first tee shot on the tee sheet, what time they made the turn, and what time they finished.

The ability to insert controls is somewhat dependent upon the configuration of the golf course and the facility.  At some courses the 1st tee and 18th green are close to one another.

We had no problem with it.
The starter logged the time out and the time in and the records were forwarded to the Pro and Committee Chairman if there was a problem.  If no problem existed, the records were filed.[/color]

Also, why should a group have to pay more because a group in front didn't let them play through?

They don't, where did you get that impression ?[/color]

I can just see way too many arguments happening or excuses flying that really can't be proven without extreme effort from the course - effort that would exceed most customers idea of service.

We heard a million excuses, all of which are irrelevant.

The clock doesn't lie.
You tee off at X, you finish at Y, you examine the differential.
If you wanted to fine tune it you could add a time clock, just like garages and other facilities, whereby the golfer's punch in and out.  It's quite easy.[/color]

As for playing through a group, it is only beneficial to play through a group if and only if there is AT LEAST a hole open in front of the slow group. We're talking two full shots. Your group would also have to be at least a full shot ahead of the group behind you in order to note have it muff up play. Otherwise, it becomes an absolute mess. Also, playing through implies that you play the hole with the group and then putt out first on the green... most people don't do that.

You're looking for examples or excuses to frustrate the system when none of that matters.

Time out is X, Time in is Y and the differential tells the tale.
Everything else is baloney.  You'll hear a million stories on why it can't work, but, it does.   We did it and it worked.
We heard every excuse in the book, we didn't care.
The Board charged us with solving the problem and we did.

Once the golfers realize that the slow play policy will be enforced and the consequences unpleasant, compliance was easy.

And, the best part is, that after the pace of play on the golf course improved by an hour, everyone except the chronic slow players enjoyed themselves more and became part of the enforcement process, encouraging their playiing partners and friends to play at a more reasonable pace.[/color]

[Kyle Harris]

Pat,

Sorry, my last paragraph wasn't meant to be a counter, just helping the thread along. Had nothing to do with what I was telling you.  

You still haven't addressed what excuses the golfers will be making to the professional staff. It's not quite as simple as you start at X and you end at Y and you full well know that. What if it rains? What if the course is closed for lightning? The staff at the point is more worried about getting golfers to safety than accounting for how much time it took them to get off the course and back out on the course. What if you're playing behind the five hour group and there is no where to play through? Suddenly, that group is paying $XX because of circumstances well beyond their control.

I guess my point is, this system would only be fair, equitable and working under the most IDEAL of golf circumstances, and would have to work all day.

You're right though, controls aren't hard to implement at a course, and I would love to see them more used. Any course I am employed at has something like that if I am working outside.

I do feel incentives are a good way to start though. At PineCrest, our pro would ride around a few times a day and give people coupons good for $10 off the next round of golf, free lunch at the turn, etc. for doing things like fixing ball marks, raking traps, and yes... keeping up the pace. That to me is a much better way of going about it. Reward little habits and behaviors that are beneficial instead of absolutes like total pace of play and all.

[Patrick_Mucci]

You still haven't addressed what excuses the golfers will be making to the professional staff. It's not quite as simple as you start at X and you end at Y and you full well know that.

Kyle, it really is that simple because we viewed all excuses as immaterial and irrelevant.  There were no excuses short of medical emergencies or other dire consequences that merited attention.  

Lost balls, out of bounds, water hazards all had no relevance.
We established that contact with these variables during the normal course of a round still allowed the golfer to make it around the golf course in 4:15.

If you accept one excuse, you'll be held ransome to accept them all, thus we adopted an unofficial policy of dismissing all excuses, and, we got a great number of them, but, only initially.
After they saw how the program was being run, play speeded up and we had very few incidents.  Those we did have were dealt with according to the published policy.

One of the best was when one golfer claimed that his group stopped for lunch at the shack and shouldn't have had the time spent dining counted against the 4:15 allotment. [/color]

What if it rains? What if the course is closed for lightning?

We mandate that all golfers must leave the golf course when the lightening detector siren sounds.

If play is resumed, the disruption can be factored into the equation without much difficulty.

Rain would only affect play if the golf course became unplayable.  In that situation, prudent thought and policy must prevail.[/color]

The staff at the point is more worried about getting golfers to safety than accounting for how much time it took them to get off the course and back out on the course. What if you're playing behind the five hour group and there is no where to play through? Suddenly, that group is paying $XX because of circumstances well beyond their control.

NO, they're not paying an additional charge because they finished within 8 minutes of the group ahead of them.[/color]

I guess my point is, this system would only be fair, equitable and working under the most IDEAL of golf circumstances, and would have to work all day.

No, that's not true.
It works well, day in and day out.
The point you miss is the willingness to comply once everyone understands the rules and the consequence for violating them.
It really does work, provided that the powers that be are willing to enforce the policy, and everybody understands that at the outset of the new policy, which should be implemented at the START of a golf season.   The educational process should start prior to the opening of the golf season so that everyone will be familiar with the guidelines prior to the season.[/color]

You're right though, controls aren't hard to implement at a course, and I would love to see them more used. Any course I am employed at has something like that if I am working outside.

I would suggest that you MUST have the backing of the President and Board if you're going to implement this system.
Without it, it's a no win situation for you.
And, with the golf chairman doling out the penalties it takes you out of the line of fire and lets you function in a positive way at the club.[/color]

I do feel incentives are a good way to start though. At PineCrest, our pro would ride around a few times a day and give people coupons good for $10 off the next round of golf, free lunch at the turn, etc. for doing things like fixing ball marks, raking traps, and yes... keeping up the pace. That to me is a much better way of going about it. Reward little habits and behaviors that are beneficial instead of absolutes like total pace of play and all.

Kyle, that's awfully labor intensive, and takes away from the Pro's ability to give lessons, market, schmooz, etc., etc..

The reason I like the clock is that there's no friction between individuals because the system has no moving parts, it's simply a mathematical calculation without confrontation.[/color]

[THuckaby2]

Patrick:

The issue of slow play has been discussed on here, and outside of here, seemingly ad nauseam; and as various schemes to combat it have been presented, I have always been one of the naysayers giving all sorts of reasons why they wouldn't work.

But as I've read this thread, you have me convinced that your scheme is indeed very viable, at least at a private club.

Do you think it has any chance of working at a public course, with or without some tweaking?

My beloved Santa Teresa seems to be the slow play capital of California.  Any help you could give would be VERY appreciated.

TH

[Kyle Harris]

Pat,

I see what you're saying now. Very interesting points. The reason I was questioning everything was I had a similar idea a few years ago, and rationalized my way out of it with the arguments I presented to you. I was working at the PSU Courses at the time, so a private club government was the furthest thing from my mind, but with the backing of the green chairman, et al, I can definately see it working out in that setting. (For the record, I've worked at four private clubs of different types in the past 9 years, and not one has had a pace of play problem... never thought it was much of a problem at a private club as a result).

The idea of rewarding a group for staying up with the group in front of them is quite sound, and as you said, should be implemented. I had interpreted the idea as rewarding a group based on playing in under 4 hours or some other arbitrary time, instead of keeping up the pace, my apologies.

As for ways to regulate, I am actually working on a software program that would be able to track such things. Basically put up a wireless network that spans the course, and set up terminals on each tee that each group checks in on. That way the shop knows where every group on the course is (give the starter and ranger a tablet PC and they can get real time updates). Also, the system knows where every group should be an when. The program is currently in the Alpha stage. Taking your idea a bit further, the computer system could keep track of everything and alert the group and shop as needed.

As for the PineCrest pro, it was labor intensive, but PineCrest had no practice facility save for a putting green, and the pro there basically ran the business of the shop instead of giving lessons. Spending an hour out on the course was his way of getting away from all that for a bit. When he was busy, he just let the ranger give them out at the ranger's discretion. \

Tom,

He has me sold too. I think combining those incentives with a very well trained starter/ranger/golf shop and keeping the tee on time would do tons of good for pace of play in the country.

[Matt_Ward]

Huck:

At public courses the issue always comes down to the oversight of club management. The inmates do not run the asylum but if management doesn't institute thorough and consistent rules then that will always happen.

To wit ...

Many management groups don't really provide oversight over club regulars -- they simply turn the dogs on the juniors, women and those not "connected."

If guidelines are developed and enforced uniformily then the possibility for speed of play can be achieved. The other issue comes down to minimizing the distractions that detour people from playing golf to carrying on with all the other commercial activities. When a club permits a roving hospitality stand you inevitably get people who stop play and then begin to hava mini-picnic session.

The issue boils down to management and there understanding of what golf is supposed to be about.

At the Mira Vista Golf Course in Aurora, CO they have a set time limit for people to play the golf course. They make it a point to highlight what the procedures are and they go about enforcing it with any group playing the course. If people can't hack the requirements there are various options that are enforced.

Slow play is the absolute pits -- however -- most management operations turn a deaf and dumb ear because they don't want to upset any patrons -- I guess -- they don't mind upsetting the bulk of people who can't stand slow play.

Management runs the highway we call golf -- if they allow one or two cars to cause course gridlock I blame them for what happens.

[George Pazin]

I'm always happy to have an opportunity to agree with Matt.

What I really don't understand is why management risks angering the majority of golfers by refusing to do anything about the slow pokes? I know my public playing friends and I keep a mental tally on which courses to avoid at certain times. I just can't imagine the people who appreciate getting in a nicely paced round don't far outnumber the few who choose to screw everyone else with their slow play. Heck, I'd advertise the fact that my course threw out offenders - that'd bring in lots of other golfers, IMHO.

[Matt_Ward]

George:

To answer your question -- most management companies see the issue of slow play as a dead end. They know they will ultimately have to take sides and they don't want to piss anyone off.

That's why it angers me when so many facilities talk the talk about having rangers or "players assistants" or other such PR BS spin.

Clearly, people should follow what you and your friends do -- only patronize those facilities that respect your time and $$.

The sad fact from my experience is that the courses that charge the most likely do the least when it comes down in handling the situation of slow play. They have all these people running around the place but no one to take bull by the horns and start to identify who is holding up the parade.

I tell you a simple solution -- put the onus on clubs -- have them charge you your green fee based on the amount of time you spend on the course. If it's four hours you then pay the full tariff. If it's 4 1/2 hours you pay 20% less -- if it's 5 hours you payu 50% less. If it's more than 5 1/2 hours you pay zero.

Let's see management companies literally put their $$ where their mouth is.  

[DMoriarty]

RE

I'm not sure that I understand "allotted time" the same way you do.  I view an allotted time as a maximum, not a minimum.  "Finish in X hours or less."   I think that is certainly the underlying and original message, dont you?  

Think of stubborn old man in his 600 foot motorhome, driving in the fast lane at exactly the speed limit and not a mile per hour more.  His reasoning is that the speed limit is the law and it is plenty fast for him, so it should be plenty fast for everyone else as well.   Technically, he has a point, but it is not really his decision to make.  
___________________

TomH

Definitely a tough walk can slow things up, but I wonder if we sometimes use these things to mask other reasons for a slow round.  

While BT is not a super easy walk, I found it quite reasonable, with one tough climb.  Certainly no harder that the walk at some of the classic courses; Crystal Downs for instance.  I just dont think one tough walk will slow things down all that much.  
______________________________
Solving the pace problem on public courses is definitely a problem.  I have occassionally offered the following solution, but I dont know that it has ever been tried.   I'd like to see if it might work:


Public access players often face two related problems at affordable, quality designs:  slow play and the scarcity of tee times.  One exacerbates the other-- miss out on the early morning times and you are much more likely to suffer through a 5-6 hour round.
. . .
My proposal is simple and is basically a modified version of Pete Galea's laudable Fast Play Tuesday's . . . Sundays etc. where golfers finishing in less than 4 hours get a free drink:

If a foursome finishes in under 4 hours on the weekend, they receive a "priority tee time" for the weekend after next. (Cant be the next weekend bc those times are already gone.)  The priority time would simply consist of the opportunity to make any time 7 1/2 days in advance-- call on Friday afternoon for next Saturday's times, Saturday afternoon for next Sundays.)  

The idea is that diligent golfers who play regularly would begin to dominate the early weekend times, thus setting the pace for the rest of the day. Hopefully, over time, more and more regular golfers would occupy the regular times.  The course could build a regular, returning client base, and the nomadic pub-links might eventually feel a sense of loyalty and community that is often missing from public access golf.

A few Cons:  
--In the beginning there would be much complaining about the pace of preceding groups ("Not fair! We would have made it, but for the snails in front of us!")  The starters would have to draw a firm "no excuses" line in the sand, and let people know that it is somewhat a luck of the draw proposition.  Also, over time, this problem might work itself out, as slow golfers are weeded out.
-- There might be some vigilantes marshalling on the course ("Speed up or get the hell out of my way!")    Obviously, you wouldnt want this to get ugly, but on the other hand it might help everyone laggards hurry along if they knew that they were costing those behind a good tee time.  A little positive peer pressure.

Has anyone tried this or anything, and if so, what were the results?

Any questions, suggestions on how to implement or improve such a program?