Bandon Trails thoughts

[ed_getka]

I recently returned from my trip to Bandon. I will give some quick general impressions, and then go hole by hole over the next few days.
   Overall I would give the course a 7-8 on the Doak scale. I would say there is still upside potential to the rating after the course matures which may affect how some of the holes play.
   I really like the land they had to work with, and the routing seems to flow very nicely to me. I think #13-17 is one of the best stretches of holes I have played with a lot of variety contained in those holes.
   I think the biggest drawback to the course is the greens. I just found some of them to be too open in the front, and #6 in particular to be quite boring. Off the top of my head I would say that putting the Sheep Ranch greens on the Trails might result in a 9-10 rating. I will go into the green stuff more in the hole by hole.
    My single favorite feature on the course is the diagonal ridge going through #4 fairway.
    It was a great treat to finally meet Bill Coore and have a chance to talk with him on opening day.
   

[David_Tepper]

Ed -

Was is windy when you played Bandon Trails? Do you think the open-front greens might be a concession to playing the course under windy conditions? Just a thought.

DT

[ed_getka]

David,
   We did have wind, mostly 1-2 clubs. There are a number of holes in the trees where wind will have less effect. The greens on #3, 6, 9, I thought would have benefitted from being on a diagonal to the line of play or have some bunkering that encouraged an approach from a particular side.
   I also thought that some greens would have benefitted from some tilting. The majority of greens have very little to no tilt side to side. There is interesting internal contour in at least some areas of most greens, with the exception of #6. However, even #6 has an interesting pin position back right where there is a falloff into a bunker.
   Overall C&C et al. did a great job and I really enjoyed the course.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Ed,

Your observations seem a little different from those of our clan of 24.  Like David said I wonder if you saw a different course - wind from an another direction or something along those lines.

In your mind what makes 14 so great?

JC

[ed_getka]

Johnathan,
   No one individual hole in that stretch is knock your socks off great, but I love the variety of demands that stretch of holes that contains #14 requires.
   #14 requires a tee shot down the left if you want to simplify your approach. If you miss to the middle or right you are blind coming in, but since it is with a short iron I feel that a golfer should be able to control their approach shot. If a golfer doesn't get the tee shot on the left side of the fairway I don't feel they should necessarily be able to make birdie. We didn't play in a gale, but with a normal summer wind I felt the hole was a lot of fun and a great challenge and is eminently fair to play. My short game was sketchy at best on this trip so this opinion is not based on any short game wizardry on my part. I still prefer #6 Pacific, but I really like #14 Trails.

[ed_getka]

#1 is a nice short opening par 4. Not overly demanding off the tee, and an uphill approach to a green flanked short by grass covered dune mounds. The elevated tee with the view is an added bonus.

#2 Downhill par 3 that was fun from either tee. It looks visually intimidating, but then you get down there and find 20-25 yards of fairway sloping down towards the green that will feed a slightly missed or underclubbed shot down to the hole. A solid hole. I think it a tee shot coming more from the left might have made the hole even a little better (for me anyway). Seeing the sand face of the dune coming from the left would have increased the intimidation even more I think.

[RJ_Daley]

#2 Downhill par 3 that was fun from either tee. It looks visually intimidating, but then you get down there and find 20-25 yards of fairway sloping down towards the green that will feed a slightly missed or underclubbed shot down to the hole. A solid hole.

Ed, doesn't this smack of some sort of ADA or EOC kind of thing?  How is it a solid hole if missed shot or underclub can yield a feed to the hole?  Isn't it a test of golf?  Sorry if that sounds negative.  Of course I haven't even seen the hole.  But, where is the consequence for error, if it is as you say?

[Philip Gawith]

So where do you now stand ed on the 10 rounds at Bandon question in terms of how you would split them between the 3 courses?

[TEPaul]

Ed:

Why do you think so many open fronts on the greens is a drawback or boring? Do you think it makes the course too easy?

I must say looking at the photos of all 18 holes in Mike Erdman's thread that the course certainly is beautifully natural looking and strategies do look to be nuancy due to the large and small pitch and roll of the land as well as some bunkering that is in or eats into fairway lines.

[Kent Salisbury]

I just returned from Bandon and found the new course to be very peaceful. As mentioned below, I did not find the course as tough as BD or PD. Too wide open considering how little wind comes into play. The talk of it being compared to PV is true from a visual perspective, but it is not visually intimidating as PV.

14 is a great hole. What makes it so great? OPTIONS, OPTIONS and more OPTIONS. Played it 3 times and still can't decide what is the best way to play the hole, except not down the right side.

Loved the positioning of the tee on 8. Right behind the 7th green.

Loved how the greens allowed for some creative chipping or putting from off the green, but found that the grass was not cut as tight as need be to maximize this design feature(too slow). I'm assuming this will improve as the course matures.

One thing off topic regarding the caddies. I think it is a little much that all of them go to every green and tee. With as many as 4 caddies in every group, 1-2 of them should go ahead. This would speed up play, especially at BD and PD. They would be able to find balls that are off line.  2 caddies are enough to read greens and direct players where to hit their tee shots.  I wonder if this would go over with the average resort guest?

Overall would rate Pac, Trails, and Dunes in order.



 

Would like to see the bunkers play as hazards like PV (no rakes), but I guess it is crazy to think that the resorts clientele would appreciate this.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Kent - little wind comes into play???  Methinks you played a rather benign edition to Trails.  It was blowing at 50 mph when we were there and the inland holes were only slightly protected.

I guess I have to see the place in a no-win(d) situation as 14 had only one option in a stiff wind -- hit it into the woods.

JC

[ed_getka]

RJ,
   The ball won't feed all the way to the hole, but will end up down in front of the green with a straightforward chip to try to save par.

Philip,
   I would do 6 Pacific, 4 Trails. I don't think I will play BD anymore. However, BD gets the most play and in informal surveys of guys we talked to BD is the fave. The whole time I was on BD, I was wishing I was on PD. BD has some great holes, but just not enough compared to its neighbors. And a day at Sheep Ranch is absolutely mandatory.

[THuckaby2]

Philip,
   I would do 6 Pacific, 4 Trails. I don't think I will play BD anymore. However, BD gets the most play and in informal surveys of guys we talked to BD is the fave. The whole time I was on BD, I was wishing I was on PD. BD has some great holes, but just not enough compared to its neighbors. And a day at Sheep Ranch is absolutely mandatory.

Ed - thanks for the summation.  Are your really THAT strident against BD though?  Man I can't imagine going up there and not playing it.  I do really like the course.  But you do make a good point that time spent there is lost elsewhere.. still ZERO playings of BD seems harsh to me.

And it's funny also, of my college buds who have been to Bandon - and many of them have - the thought right how is that Bandon is a far superior course to Pacific as well.  These guys range from 9-1 in favor of Bandon to 5-5 tie.  Just goes to show it is a big beautiful world of golf with room for one and all.

As for a day at Sheep Ranch, did you mean to say you  advocate an entire day?  Or would a few hours suffice?  Remember again, time spent there is lost elsewhere.  Of course if time is unlimited this isn't an issue... and I have no doubt how cool it is - I;m with Mike Cirba of a mindset that that is what golf is all about - I just can't imagine that unless I have unlimited time, I devote an entire day to that.  Do they even let you do that, btw?

It's a non-issue for me anyway, I'm just curious as to how others treat this.  My trip this week is all about comraderie/matches with the boys and zero about architecture (as if that's ever a consideration for me anyway).  Time spent on Sheep Ranch is time missed with the boys... so it's gonna be a few hours at most.

TH

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

The boys, the beer, and the camaraderie will still be there.

The Sheep Ranch in it's present iteration most likely won't.

Exactly how long would you stay in heaven?    

[THuckaby2]

Tom,

The boys, the beer, and the camaraderie will still be there.

That's not exactly true.  THIS group, with THIS type of freedom, for THIS amount of time... will never happen again.  We all have kids and they are all getting older - once they're old enough to not demand attention, we'll be too old ourselves to enjoy it like we can now, if not dead!  Methinks free time to spend with these great friends has a shorter life than does Sheep Ranch.

But that being said, I am aware that Sheep Ranch in its current state does have a short life as well.  That's why I'm even willing to deviate from the boys for a few hours.

 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I need to find a way west very soon. I find myself thinking more of Oregon each time I go outside in the heat here.

[Mike_Cirba]

That's not exactly true.  THIS group, with THIS type of freedom, for THIS amount of time... will never happen again.  We all have kids and they are all getting older - once they're old enough to not demand attention, we'll be too old ourselves to enjoy it like we can now, if not dead!  
 

Tom,

Is that the line you used this year to get a pass??  I can almost hear the despair coming from your voice.  GREAT one!!!  

Next year you can throw in the "You know, I never thought this opportunity would come together again like this, but, fortunately, it has...the bad news is that we're all another year closer to the black, implaceable wall of doom we're all facing, so time is even shorter this year than it was the last".  PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let me go!!!??

[PThomas]

mmmmm, "How to convince your wife of the importance of yet another golf trip" might be worthy of a separate thread!!

I like this one:  "Honey, remember if I go on this trip, it will make me happy....and a happy me is a better husband and father"....

"seriously", Ed, I don't think I could ever NOT play BD while at Bandon...I haven't played BT yet, but BD has SO many good/great holes.....

[THuckaby2]

Mike - you're not far off.    The "problem" is, my wife is way beyond game-playing when it comes to the negotiation for trips like this.  Best to just fall on one's sword these days.. that seems to work better.  That's how this trip got sold.  That and "it's already booked and paid for".  

But my take about time with the boys is sincere.  It's likely blasphemy in here, but I'll take a round with them on a parking lot over solo at Sand Hills, Cypress Point, Sheep Ranch, you name it.  Yes, I am a weird cat.

Now if I could get all 16 of them over at Sheep Ranch, well then THAT is golf heaven.  But that can't be done - both from their end and ours... That is, I've been told the folks that handle Sheep Ranch won't have room for that many while I'm there, but perhaps more importantly I can't convince at least half of the guys that it's worth doing anyway.  Different crowd, yes.  But especially for the guys who haven't yet been to Bandon, well... giving up a round on an existing Top-25 course for an unproven thing that by some definition isn't even a golf course is just a VERY tough sell.

Look how Jonathan and Joel described Sheep Ranch and their feelings about it... and they are by most definitions "purists"... then imagine the take of guys who great as they are as friends are as far from purists as I am from skinny... Hopefully you can understand the difficulty of selling them on Sheep Ranch.

TH

[David Sneddon]

mmmmm, "How to convince your wife of the importance of yet another golf trip" might be worthy of a separate thread!!

I like this one:  "Honey, remember if I go on this trip, it will make me happy....and a happy me is a better husband and father"....

"seriously", Ed, I don't think I could ever NOT play BD while at Bandon...I haven't played BT yet, but BD has SO many good/great holes.....

Went to Scotland on a 12 day junket last year - justified by "trip of a lifetime' to SWMBO*.

This year it is to Bandon, explained as 'have to play it before I get too old and whatever skills I have are diminished'.  That one was barely a pass.

Next year, the guys have mentioned Pebble and if anyone has any good excuses that will pass the SWMBO* test, they'd like to loan me, I'd appreciate it, since I'm running out.

................................................................
*SWMBO (pronounced Swimbo) "She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed'
from 'She' series of books by Sir Henry Rider Haggard.  Also popularized by Roger Mortimer in his 'Rumpole' series of books.
...................................................................

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

I suggest you copy the pictures that Dave posted a few weeks back (one is now my background) of the Sheep Ranch and send them to your friends, asking if they "have any interest in playing this course?"

Any chance of getting one or three of them to join you?  It's MADE for camaraderie and match play.

[THuckaby2]

David:

I'm on about my seventh "trip of a lifetime."

Let's talk when the time comes.  Where there's a will, there's a way.  It's all in the amount of marital capital one is willing to expend.  Pebble calls for drastic measures.  A plan of attack is being formulated for you.

 

[THuckaby2]

Tom,

I suggest you copy the pictures that Dave posted a few weeks back (one is now my background) of the Sheep Ranch and send them to your friends, asking if they "have any interest in playing this course?"

Any chance of getting one or three of them to join you?  It's MADE for camaraderie and match play.

Showing them pics has been done already.  Not enough ocean in Dave's pics.  

It succeeded in convincing a few though, but not all.  They can't get over the lack of formalized course... and as cool as Dave's pics are, well... the media versions of the existing three courses impress them more.  The sad thing is that re the lack of formalized course, as much as it's a great thing for you and me, it's a dealbreaker for them.  Different strokes, oh yes.

But of course I can convince a few.  The lure of the crowd is VERY powerful though.... And we are booked with golf wall-to-wall as it is, so whenever Sheep Ranch happens means giving up a pre-set round at one of the other three, most likely.  Remember also we are doing a Ryder Cup-like match, over five rounds Fr-Sat-Sun.  The plan is for a practice round tomorrow afternoon, which of course can be missed... and thus is the best time to go to SR.  We'll see who I can convince.

Outside of that, it's possible we might have two hours before darkness on Saturday... but that's after playing 36 already... if they allow that it would be a blast... and more guys could be convinced... on these trips we always do try to do late nines with odd formats... good lord would SR be perfect for that.. but time is a real issue.

Oh well, choice between all these great things is a good choice to have.

 

[David Sneddon]

David:

I'm on about my seventh "trip of a lifetime."

Let's talk when the time comes.  Where there's a will, there's a way.  It's all in the amount of marital capital one is willing to expend.  Pebble calls for drastic measures.  A plan of attack is being formulated for you.
 

Tom:
I've already been told that my next 'trip of a lifetime' will end life as I know it, on my return.

One problem is that my wife sees golf as an expense, not a neccessity.  Food, shelter, car payments are expenses, not golf.  

I await your plan.

[Mike_Cirba]

Huck,

I'm expecting a full report.

I'm also wholly envious.  

Somehow, stirring memories are never quite as powerful as rabid anticipation.