Doak Does Desert Golf - Stone Eagle

[Michael Dugger]

Adam,

Surely, regarding the bunkers.  

Wouldn't you agree they are much different from what we see at Troon, or Desert Highlands, or Quintero, or Cascata, for example???

In that respect I think a "style" has been established, and it is much different (thankfully) from those I just mentioned.  

I like that the bunkers, at least from those two pictures, seem to serve as a transition between desert and turfed area.....and mimicing nature they are indeed.

It's hot.  I love it.  

[A_Clay_Man]

Surely, regarding the bunkers.  

Wouldn't you agree they are much different from what we see at Troon, or Desert Highlands, or Quintero, or Cascata, for example???

MD, Yes, they are much different. I'd classify the differences as being similar to a McDonalds hamburger and Kobe beef. One is strickly commercial. Without regard for the customer only the balance sheet.

Also, I cannot help but see similarities with Mackenzie style bunkering, or at at least those that have been successfully restored to reflect the good Doctor's principles of marrying the artificial with nature.

More will follow

[A_Clay_Man]

Here's the hole that Tommy had originally posted, with some added grow-in.



And Here is the guy responsible.

[A_Clay_Man]

The new pix are in, the new pix are in.



 

[PThomas]

Tom doesn't have the architect pose down correctly, as Brad  described in his book (to the effect of):"  standing  with rolled-up blueprints, pointing Moses-like and saying this is the finest land for golf he's ever seen"

thank God Tom DOESN"T have it down!!!

[Brian_Gracely]

I think it's cool that Tom is putting in some greens made of grass and some made of sand.  I hope he figures out a way to block the view of that oil container.  

[Mike Nuzzo]

Is the first new picture of a par three?
Does it have a fall away back?
While it is probably well contoured, the profile looks flat as if it were all fill not tying into the back grade, unless it is a saddle, and just looks that way from the angle.

The sod work is awsome.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:  The picture is of the 12th hole, a 165-yard par 3.  Most of the green tilts toward the tee, but a little bit of it crowns over the back ... there is some grass behind the green so long shots don't go straight into the desert, but we deliberately kept it from sight (with the slope it would have been hard to see anyway).

The green is set on a natural ridge which was a saddle between rock outcroppings, though we had to chisel away quite a bit of stuff to make it big enough for the shot.  Eric is very good at tie-ins, trust me!

The other picture is taken from the tee of the bunkerless first hole, green a bit left of center, with the second green complex and bunkers over the top of the first green in the distance.

[Don Dinkmeyer]

Tom doesn't have the architect pose down correctly, as Brad  described in his book (to the effect of):"  standing  with rolled-up blueprints, pointing Moses-like and saying this is the finest land for golf he's ever seen"

I just have to     laugh out loud on this - I've seen that direct quote and pose in at least 3 other course sites!!

[Tom Dunne]

pardon the interruption.....

[John Kirk]

Adam,

Thanks for posting the new photos.  Got any more?

I'll make the same comment I did earlier.  The dramatic holes on the perimeter of the course are beautiful, but what really gets my blood flowing are the interior holes, where several holes share fairways.  I think this will create a wonderful and intimate atmosphere for the members.

In other words, I like the picture of #12, but the view up #1 fairway really looks good to me.

[A_Clay_Man]

It's all counter-intuitive. Some Architects pose with plans and end up phoning it in. Doak poses with a phone, and builds great golf. Go figure!

JK- I'll post more as they come in.

[Big Pete]

Boy , this looks exciting!
The 12th reminds me just a tad of the 3rd at Cape Kidnappers ,
another dramatic site .
Tom sure seems on a roll...
Anybody know when the course will be ready for play?
Keep those pics coming

[A_Clay_Man]

Peter- They could be golfing as early as November, but dont hold me to that.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

The 12th reminds me just a tad of the 3rd at Cape Kidnappers ,
another dramatic site .

With just a slightly different backdrop..  

[A_Clay_Man]

By popular demand, here's another new one;



Appreciation should go to John Fitzpatrick, at Stone Eagle. 760-568-9800 or at www.stoneeagleclub.com

Did you know?

The rich brown patina on the rocks and boulders is known as "Desert Varnish".
 It is formed by microscopic bacteria which absorbs trace amounts of manganese and iron. Which then creates manganese oxide (black layer) and acts like a shield for the bacteria. A sunscreen if you will.

[cary lichtenstein]

I really likewhat I see, but do I see containment and waterfalls from a minimialist?

Nah, I must be seeing things , there can't be waterfalls in the desert, may be a mirage, I'll have Dell check my computer screen.

What I would like to see more of on this course is Doak lettting the edges of the traps grow wild so they will look consistent with the land and not so perfectly groomed.

Anyway, I like what Doak is doing here and look forward to seeing it in person.

[Tom_Doak]

Cary:  If you can see a waterfall in any of those photos, you must be psychic because it's not there.  The sole water features are a couple of rapidly flowing streams which feed into the irrigation pond on the par-4 fourth ... they just pumped water up into two existing ravines and let it flow down, although they did line the bottoms so the water doesn't percolate out.  There is about 75 feet of fall from the fourth tee to the pond, so there are a couple of places where the water "falls," but they are more visible from the first tee than from the fourth hole itself.  I was really pleased with how they turned out; it's nothing at all like the Niagara-scale features at Bighorn or The Quarry.

As for containment, with 250 feet of fall from the highest point to the lowest, you're always going to have some sort of containment above the greens, but there is not much on the low sides.  (The two architects who have taken a tour to date have both commented that they would have put in more containment, and they might be right considering the slopes.)

The last picture is of the par-3 third hole, about 180 yards from the back tee.  You can see the approach to the sixth green (pictured earlier) in the background, and get some appreciation for the elevation changes involved.  The fourth tee and fifth fairway are between the two, but you can't see either because of the terrain.

PS  I hate that someone got a picture of me talking on my cell phone while I was on site; I try to concentrate on the site I'm on instead of another job.  But it is ringing more these days.

[PThomas]

I must say that the connected fairway concept seems pretty cool and unique

[TEPaul]

That is an extraordinary looking place for golf. I really do wonder why bunkers are even being used on a site like that which has all that I can see in those photos going on.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom:  the bunkers are in effect "extra playable acreage" above the limitations of turfgrass for the site.  When you go off the prepared areas on this course you are down in a canyon or bouncing off rocks, so there are a lot of bunkers at the edges to keep people in play.

Not really a new idea ... Nicklaus did the same thing at Desert Highlands with his "transition" waste bunkers, although those were not as pretty to look at as Kyle Franz's bunkers.  It's just a different look, as Jack would say.

[cary lichtenstein]

Tom:

I'm not critizing the containment, I know it is absolutely necessary, and I have zero problems with it, but soooo many of our fellow GCA criticize containment when it is done by someone else, I thought it would be cute to point it out.
 

Cary

[DMoriarty]

Tom:

I'm not critizing the containment, I know it is absolutely necessary, and I have zero problems with it, but soooo many of our fellow GCA criticize containment when it is done by someone else, I thought it would be cute to point it out.
 

Cary

Cary,

I've seen Stone Eagle, and so I have some idea of where contaiment exists and where it doesnt.  Tell me, in the pictures you see, where did Tom Doak move large amounts of dirt to create containment which was not there naturally??  There may be a bit in these pictures but I doubt you can see it.  

Pretty amazing how you found waterfalls in these pictures, you must have some eyes.  The eyes of a zealot perhaps?

[cary lichtenstein]

D:

Waterfall: I saw water falling over 3-5 levels of rocks in Adam's post on the first page of this thread. I'm not against it, but I think you need a recircling pump to do that in the desert.

Containment is always there if you have a hole that sits in a saddle, I mentioned it because containment was highly critized at Lakota, and a good portion of those holes "sit in a saddle"

It appears that Tom has kept the containment in keeping with the land so it looks pretty natural.

[DMoriarty]

I missed the photo of the waterfall first time around, and stand corrected.

I am sure there will be plenty to say about the water works, but do you mind if we wait and see the course finished?   Or are we biased in favor of Tom D. for not attacking him sight unseen?

If you believe the latter to be true you may want to go search out the first mention of Doak possibly doing a waterfall at this course.  I recall he brought up the possibility and those you claim are his lackeys were pretty harsh on the concept.   If I recall correctly, Doak called them biased for not waiting to see the course before they trashed the waterfall.

So which is it?  Are we biased for attacking Doak's waterfall sight unseen, or biased for not attacking it, sight unseen?  

Containment is always there if you have a hole that sits in a saddle, I mentioned it because containment was highly critized at Lakota, and a good portion of those holes "sit in a saddle"

It appears that Tom has kept the containment in keeping with the land so it looks pretty natural.

Come on Cary,  hasnt the vast majority of the Engh criticism focused on unnatural and unnecessary mounding which DOES NOT look natural at all.   I know that much of my criticism of his Top-Ten-World Black Rock has focused on just that!

So when you try to be "cute" by implying we are hypocrites for not attacking Doak's mounding like we attack Engh's, you are being entirely disingenuous, are you not?  

Further, I suggest that most of your's and Matt's claims of bias are based on similar over-simplifications and disingenuous comparisons.  

That you are willing to try to draw such a comparison demonstrates ample bias and narrow-mindedness on your part.  There is absolutely no comparison between the mounding at Top-Ten-World Black Rock and Doak's Stone Eagle.  

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