Pacific Dunes & Black Mesa

[Matt_Ward]

In my travels through the USA the two most impressive public courses I have played that have opened in the last few years are the Tom Doak design nearly all are familiar with in Bandon, OR called Pacific Dunes. No less impressive to me is the stunning creation of Black Mesa just outside of Santa Fe, by the highly talented, but clearly lesser known architect, Baxter Spann.

Before going forward I'd like to mention a rather astute comment brought forward by Ron Whitten in his overall assessment of Black Mesa. It reads as follows ...

"Course architect Baxter Spann had not previously been known for lay-of-the-land design, but, in my mind, what he established at Black Mesa ranks among the very best minimalist layouts in America. It's on a par with Tom Doak's Pacific Dunes, for example, and its achievement even exceeds that wonderful coastal layout, because it's a lot tougher to push around sandstone rock and keep it looking natural than it is the sand dunes of Oregon."

I don't doubt for a New York minute the pedigree of Pacific Dunes. The course is a tour de force follow-up from the initial creation of Bandon Dunes by David Kidd.

Pac Dunes has a tremendous advantage in having an architect who has become the Michael Jordan of modern design. Tom Doak is rapidly ascending the ranks and Pacific Dunes was the critical openign salvo that took him beyond the private clubs he previously worked and his involvement with courses in and around the Michigan area.

The course also benefits from the brilliant branding of the Bandon Dunes facility. Mike Keiser realized how critical it would be to have different architects for the different layouts he envisioned on that special property.

Pac Dunes had enough teeth for just about any player. It beguiles you at some points and it is quick to suffer no fools. The ebb and flow of the layout is well done and clearly having the Pacific Ocean serve as a frame to the layout is an added bonus although the ocean only serves in a direct role on a few holes.

Black Mesa gets little attention because of its location -- although Santa Fe is clearly more well know than Bandon,
OR -- before the golf element got started.

Baxter Spann is also not a known commodity in design and the collaborative framework he pursued in conjunction with course manager Eddie Peck and Superintendent Pat Brockwell makes for a winning formula through and through.

You get the feeling that Black Mesa is so very special immediately at the 1st hole. Yes, the whiners and wimps who scream loudly about the huge hill that guards the right side of the hole like a doberman -- but the hole is no different than similar situations you will face across the pond at courses in Scotland and England.

Black Mesa has one of the most unique routing plans I have witnessed. You face numerous challenges in all phases of your game. I have played both courses a few times and it amazes me how solid they are in so many respects.

Black Mesa requires solid driving -- you need to get the ball in the proper position in order to even think about the approach shot. The greens are also neatly banked, contoured and angled to repel anything that is played in a half-hearted fashion.

No doubt Black Mesa is a bit more demanding in the driving zones -- but there's sufficient room in all the key situations that I can remember.

Unfortunately, Black Mesa doesn't have an ocean -- or an architect who has garnered his own special rooting section here on GCA. And I say that with all due respect and acknowledgement for the considerable talent Tom Doak and his highly creative design team possess. But there are others in the field of architecture who are no more than one solid site away from being known to a broader audience.

I throw these two courses forward because I sincerely believe Ron Whitten hit the nail on the head with his opening comments when reviewing Black Mesa.

I'm more than happy to discuss the merits of the individual holes -- either from a routing perspective or from a group category of the 3's, 4's and 5's.

Many people might think I have sniffed some powerful glue but I see the margin between the two courses as far apart as the space that existed between Affirmed and Alydar back in '78.

I leave for now with an additional comment made by Ron W ...

"I don't want my enthusiasm for the "big picture" at Black Mesa to overshadow a very important detail of its design. These aren't just great holes artistically and technically; they're also great in their strategies."

I could not agree more ...

[Dan Kelly]

Many people might think I have sniffed some powerful glue but I see the margin between the two courses as far apart as the space that existed between Affirmed and Alydar back in '78.

Matt --

Which is Affirmed, and which is Alydar?

Dan

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt

Where would you place Wolf Creek in this mix?

I recently returned from a Nevada trip and played WC twice. It was in immaculate condition as opposed to my experience with BM last April. The members of my group(10-25 handicap) preferred WC  overwhelmingly.

Steve

[Michael Dugger]

Matt

Where would you place Wolf Creek in this mix?

Are you referring to the golf on Mars Wolf Creek in Mesquite?

Isn't that place a little harsh, or is it that Black Mesa is less harsh?  

How playable is Black Mesa to those who hit it wildly?  (like me)

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

I too am a big fan of Wolf Creek at Paradise Canyon in Mesquite.

To be fair -- you caught Black Mesa very early in the
season -- let's not forget the immediate Santa Fe area is at 7,000 feet elevation and turf growth can be hindered by a series of events until you get into May.

The turf issues you encountered were extensive and were handled competently by Pat and his staff. They required extensive watering and with that the greens became softer-- much softer than what is the daily fare at Black Mesa.

I can tell you candidly -- the turf has responded quite well and the course is up and running at full speed. Anyone who values the healthy interplay of the "ground" and "air" games will not be disappointed with Black Mesa. When people talk about what they experience at Wild Horse the speed of the turf is alive and well at the layout in New Mexico.

Regarding Wolf Creek -- I really enjoy the course but Dennis Rider added a number of modern day quirk items in the layout. Wolf Creek is the quintessential modern day match play course. There is risk galore when playing it and if you fail to advance your shotmaking skills the net result will be a quick NASCAR type crash on just about any hole. Play stroke play on the layout and the opinions may be somewhat different.

Keep in mind Black Mesa works with the land in so many more ways than Wolf Creek. The shaping of Wolf Creek is clearly by design and while I salute Rider big time for so many unique and crafty holes (e.g. 1st, 2nd, 7th, 13th, 14th and 17th) there are also other holes where the mantra of "sink or swim" is clearly an issue -- I mean the par-3 8th is one tough amigo -- it actually makes the 16th at Cypress look tame by comparison!

Wolf Creek is adventure Indiana Jones type golf. I've opined previously that many "classic" type lovers will frown upon Wolf Creek but when they go across the pond they gush and gush about the quirk overseas when the very same thing happens a number of times at Wolf Creek. Go figure?

Steve, I see a few major weak holes at Wolf Creek. The par-4 10th is the obligatory long par-4 with little character. Ditto the lame drop-shot par-3 11th. Once you get to the 12th the game is on for the back nine until you get to the "over-the-top" waterfall feature with the 18th.

Black Mesa combines a solid routing with holes that have a number of ways to play them. Baxter, in partnership with Eddie Peck and Pat Brockwell did not "dumb down" the layout but they were quite sensitive to provide options for a range of handicaps.

Dan:

Glad you asked.

Since you don't care I'll just say this -- I could never be bored playing either of them. As much as I like Bethpage Black I have to say both of these courses offer more variety in the green areas and are not consumed by the penchant for difficulty compounded with more difficulty. Although, neither is a pushover when the wind blows -- my last time at Black Mesa was about a week ago and the wind was quite brisk -- 3-4 clubs on given holes.

[David Kelly]

Matt,

I was very impressed by Black Mesa and I thought the conditions were really conducive to the ground game. It was very playable even in a wind that was at least 2-3 clubs throughout the day.  In a comparable wind Wolf Creek would have been absolutely unplayable.

But I have Pacific Dunes significantly above Black Mesa and that is no knock on BM.

Staying with your horse racing analogy I would say that Black Mesa is Silver Charm - a champion.  But Pacific Dunes would be Dr. Fager - one of the all-time greats.

[cary lichtenstein]

I liked both Wolf Creek and Black Mesa, overall, I think Black Black Mesa is a better course.

My knock on Wolf Creek is the steepness of the cart paths and frankly, I was scared driving down some of them, and once was enough for me, whereas, I played Black Mesa twice, and liked it better the second go around.

And that is in spite of the dust and dirt from those unpaved cart paths.

Wolf Creek maybe a little too manicured for me, I kind of like the rustic look better.

[A_Clay_Man]

Steve Shaffer, I'd like to know what the conditioning has to do with the quality of the architecture?

My first trip around Black Mesa saw many spots were the turf hadn't filled-in, yet. and, Ya know what? I came into the pro shop stating "whoever grew that grass out there is a god". That's how shitty the soil is here in NM. So full of clay and rock.
 
MAtt- I concur with your comments re: Black Mesa, as you know. There's not a weak hole on the property. And the placement of the short par fours causes salavating waiting to get to them and no let down after you've played'em. Wish I could comment on the comparison, but Bandon had no room for me.

However, I would like to point out, what appears to be some license Mr. Whitten takes, within one of the qoutes you selected.
It's been told on here (gca.com) how Doak's little secret at Bandon was how much dirt he really did move. While making it all seem so natural. The majority of dirt moved at Black Mesa was negligible,(less that 100k) with most of it used on the par 3 11th, to fill the valley coming out of the box canyon. And the driving range.
So when Whitten says how much easier it is to move dirt in Oregon, of course he's right, but he leads the reader to think that more dirt was moved outside of Santa Fe. At least that's how it came across to me.

I still feel Doaks work in Lubbock is hugely under-rated, but that's likely mostly due to a stylistic preference of mine.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Adam

Of course, conditioning has nothing to do with the quality of the architecture. It just created more "eye candy" to the members of our group than did the conditions we encountered at BM last year. If you recall, we had a very cold day in late April last year at BM. The temperature dropped into the low 40s and snow squalls frequented our back 9. This year, at WC, we had both days there in the mid 70s with no wind and plenty of warm sun.

This is just like the old college visitation adage- if you see a campus on a nice sunny day,you will be more favorably impressed with the school than if your visit took place  on a gray cold day. There are studies on this topic somewhere. Maybe the same applies to golf courses. Notwithstanding the weather, I liked BM.

I'd like to return to Santa Fe next summer when the weather and grass will be better at BM.

Steve

[THuckaby2]

Matt:

You didn't answer Dan's question.  Which is Affirmed and which is Alydar?

I tend to agree with you on this, btw.  Black Mesa is right up there with Pacific Dunes overall.  They both are truly great golf courses without a doubt.  I do feel as more people see Black Mesa this might become better known.  But Santa Fe isn't a golf destination, like Bandon has become.. so perhaps this wide visibility may never happen.  That would be a shame.  Black Mesa is genius.

But in my mind, Black Mesa is Alydar.

But it is that close - very good analogy.

Taking this further though...Sand Hills is Secretariat.

 

[THuckaby2]

and NGLA is Seabiscuit!

(taking this back to "classical" horses - we all know one can't compare horses who ran before 1960 to those who ran thereafter).

 

[Matt_Ward]

Steve S:

You need to return and see how the turf has improved. Given your open mind I am confident you will see what I have said is true.

Wolf Creek is a wonderous match-play course -- plenty of excitement and loads of fun. There are just a few weak holes. The issue for me is that Black Mesa is nearly seemless -- the layout doesn't have the aburptness of the terrain (cart paths) at Wolf Creek nor the overwhelming influence of man's hands.

I'd still play both in a NY minute because as much as people on GCA shoot the shit about wanting to see architecture that's "outside the box" -- the reality is that many simply prefer a particular style with where they play.

David Kelly:

Please elaborate in great detail the sum of the "significant" differences between Pac Dunes & Black Mesa. I'm all ears.

Huck:

You're right -- Sante Fe has not been a golf destination until recently. The addition of Black Mesa -- the added 9 at Paa-Ko and the new 18 at Sandia along with Tamaya makes for a good combo of different golf opportunities.

Frankly, Santa Fe is light years beyond Bandon in terms of historical significance, food, tourism possibilities, etc, etc. The lone missing ingredient was the golf side -- Black Mesa now compliments what Santa Fe has always provided.

You are a bit more sophisticated Huck not to fall for the easy "brownie" points Pac Dunes or any seaside course gets because of the proximity to the water. Black Mesa is framed by some of the most unique terrain in the USA. You have the mountain ranges on both the west and east sides of the property and when I was just there the snow line covered the top 25% of the highest peaks. A wonderous eyeful indeed!

In addition, you have the actual routing and holes themselves. Frankly, the detailing provided by Baxter Spann gets a quick pan by the masses because people take the attitude that how can great golf be created in New Mexico. What silliness and ignorance!

Bill S:

Appreciate your detailed post.

The future of Black Mesa is tied to the development of the casitas and the future 2nd 18. At that point Black Mesa will jettison further ahead as a unique destination on par with the top public facilities in the USA.

Candidly, I believe Black Mesa is there now.

You are quite astute -- the folks at Black Mesa want people to experience the golf -- not the BS in having some kid with walkie-talkies slobber all over you the second you enter the parking lot. Black Mesa is not about the hand-holding and over-the-top rub you behind stuff that you get with so many layouts in the Valley of the Sun.

That's not to say the place doesn't welcome you. It does but it also understands that it's the product that ulrimately sells the place. Black Mesa isn't about "dumbing down" the product -- it's about getting golfers who understand that rising to the challenge is what true golfers really want to accomplish.

Alex:

Appreciate your comments -- but you minimize the "groupie" following that exists here on GCA and elsewhere. If you flipped the names of the architects for the courses and left everything as is you would likely have people gushing several times over for what lies at Black Mesa and I mean that with no disrespect to either Tom Doak or Baxter Spann. A number of people chase architect portfolios as people who go to movies depending upon who the director is.

Michael Dugger:

When you say wildly -- I have to ask how wildly? Frankly, there are people who could not hit Oklahoma from the Kansas state-line.

Black Mesa must be played at the appropriate tee box. People need to check the ego at the door and understand that while there is room the facility doesn't blindly accept ANY type of shot.

[THuckaby2]

Matt:

Of course PD - and any course near big water - gets "brownie points" for being so - that's just the way of golf.  Thus I don't find it necessarily to be wrong... visuals matter, as does feel... and damn near all golfers like being near big water, so that's the way it goes.  I have no hassles with it.  Those courses are always going to start with a little advantage.

But not all of them are great, of course.

Pacific Dunes is great - for all the reasons you and many others in here have described.

But so is Black Mesa.  It does just unfortunately start a little behind, so to speak, in the minds of most.   Hey I'm with you re the beauty there - I love it.  But believe it or not, there are some very knowledgeable folks who just don't like "desert golf" so it starts with at least one strike against it.  I'm not mentioning any Pittsburgh area T-shirt moguls by name.    But even besides that wise man, well... most people are going to prefer big water to arid desert/rocky landscape with mountains in the distance.. for golf anyway.  I wouldn't call it ignorance, just normal.  Remember golf began on links, so it's soul lies there.  I have nothing against anyone who prefers seaside golf.

In the end, as I say these are two great courses for sure, and it is WAY WAY WAY closer than most would think - great  call there.  Black Mesa is fantastic in every way, I think.  I just do in the end just put Black Mesa in the Alydar position.

And you have now had TWO chances to answer the question, and evaded it twice.  Come on Matt, which is Affirmed and which is Alydar?

TH

[Matt_Ward]

Huck:

Let me say this -- May is the month of cliffhangers for a number of TV shows from "24 to the "OC" to "American
Idol" -- I'll just let my comments hang in the air for now and let others opine.

The issue people have to consider is that Pac Dunes does have a few holes that are merely "bystanders" -- I don't think the combo back-to-back par-3's at #10 and #11 are bulletproof nor at the same level as say the par-3 15th and 16th holes at Cypress P. Ditto the filler par-5 12th which for me was nothing more than a break in the program until you reached the tour de force par-4 13th. I also don't see the par-3 14th and par-5 15th as being at the same level as so many of the other renown holes at Pac Dunes. Clearly, the final trio brings you home in grand fashion.

Regarding whether people like high desert golf versus courses near the ocean or large body of water, I would hope that golfers would have a much broader sense of what constitutes superior golf. I am a big time fan of Bethpage Black but I would place Pac Dunes and Black Mesa ahead of it for the simple reason dealing with the sheer array of details that each provides. I don't say that cavalierly because the Black to me is hallowed golf ground.

[George Pazin]

While I'm far from the biggest Black Mesa fan on the site, to compare it to Wolf Creek is an insult. Much greater attention was paid to the details, the green complexes are much better, there is way way less goofy golf.

Wolf Creek is that joke calendar about the world's toughest golf holes. It's fine for novelty, there's a few decent holes, but it's not remotely in the same class as BM.







IMHO.

Just noticed Huckj's reference.

Let me be clear: It's not so much that I don't like desert golf as it is that I HATE DESERT GOLF, at least what I've played. Thus, I am recusing myself from even comparing BM to Pac Dunes, if and when I ever get out there.

[THuckaby2]

 

I'm glad you saw this, George.  And you are a good man to recuse yourself.

I also don't find you "wrong" in your preferences.  Hell, we all have such.  You're just wise to recuse yourself given such.  Oh would that others took such approach....

 


Matt:

OK, so this is meant to be a cliffhanger - that's cool.  And I must say you are doing a great job... I honestly don't know for sure on which side you will fall.  Great stuff.

Regarding how people assess golf courses, well... site is always going to matter.  Yes, one would hope it's not the sole determiner, but as much as that would be silly, it would also be silly to discount it completely.

TH

[Matt_Ward]

Huck, et al:

Keep in mind this regarding Pac Dunes -- the routing features a dominant one-way oriented north-south pattern. The only hole that breaks this tendency that I can mention is the solid short par-4 16th.

Even at Bandon Dunes you get significant changes in direction. While some of the holes at Bandon -- notably the 9th and 18th are a bit of a letdown -- the bulk of the routing takes you to every corner and you experience the force / impact of the wind from a wide array of angles.

Black Mesa also possesses a superb routing -- you move in all sorts of directions and frankly how Baxter, Eddie and Pat were able to move from the par-3 15th all the way back to the clubhouse without sacrificing one bit of hole quality is indeed a testament to their efforts.

George P:

You doth protest too much / re: Wolf Creek. The course has no less the kind of quirk then you find with other courses across the pond. People fall over themselves gushing about places like Pennard, Painswick and others too numerous to mention.

I don't doubt Wolf Creek is done through man's hands and that there are a few holes that letdown the process. However, there are more than enough to keep you on the edge of your seats. If those who prefer "classic" designed golf take umbrage at Wolf Creek I say good riddance -- your tastes are far too narrow for what it clearly provides.

[THuckaby2]

Aha... methinks a very solid clue has been given as to which is which horse.

 

We'll see what type of backlash you get if it does come out how I am thinking.  Let's just say there's a LOT of love on this site for one course, and some but not much for the other.

In any case good point about the routing of PD - I had never thought of it that way.  I'm not sure how much that matters, but I await you fleshing that out and explaining.

This is a fun cliffhanger.

 

[Sean_A]

Matt

I am shocked that you would mention that gimmicky joint down in Gloucestershire in the same sentence with Pennard.  If you mentioned Cruden Bay I could excuse it.  However, as it is, I demand an apology or it shall be pistols at dawn!

Ciao

Sean

[ed_getka]

Matt,
   PD #10 is another crossing/quartering hole with regards to the wind. The tee shot on #9 also. I have often stated that I would have preferred  for Pac Dunes to cross the wind a little more. Also, come to think of it #17 also quarters across the wind. I like #15, mainly for the cool green complex. I agree that #14 isn't quite to the level of most of the course. I think #10 and 11 is a fine set of 3's, with different requirements, and I think Tom showed restraint in not trying to go overboard with both holes, given the proximity of the ocean. I haven't been back to PD since opening day, so I am looking forward to playing 36 there in a few weeks.
   I am really looking forward to seeing Black Mesa in the next year. David Kelly was there recently and loved it, and we know each others taste pretty well, so that just strengthens my resolve to get there sooner rather than later. I really enjoyed meeting Baxter in Feb, and hope he gets some more good sites to show his stuff on. It was really fun to see how excited Baxter was to see some of the holes we toured with you. I would expect someone who has been in the field so long to be sort of blase about seeing courses, but Baxter was showing me all kinds of stuff he was noticing. These times I get to spend with the architects are also so informative and enjoyable. I had a nice chat with Kelly Blake Moran at Essex and look forward to golfing with him at his Morgan Hill (?) course in Sept when I come out.
    With regard to Wolf Creek, when talking about quirk and bringing up Painswick and Pennard, etc..., there is a big difference between working with what nature provided and building weird stuff on purpose.

[PThomas]

I hadn't realized that BM was THAT highly regarded by some...thanks for your thoughts Matt

now I just gotta get out there....

[Matt_Ward]

Paul:

Get to the Land of Enchantment because the golf scene there is quite solid on the public side of the aisle -- there are good layouts and then you have the really good ones like Black Mesa and Paa-Ko Ridge. It will be interesting to see what shakes out with the arrival of Sandia GC in mid-June.

Last thing on Black Mesa -- the quality of the course is well done from start-to-finish. I can't really identify a truly weak or poor hole. Few courses in the public arena that I have played can say that.

[Bill_McBride]

Following is my  take on comparing Black Mesa and Pacific Dunes, which I somehow managed to post on the "Worst Course Profiled on GCA!"  Obviously neither of these courses belongs in that thread!

Like the raters for all the magazines, I rate Pacific Dunes above Black Mesa, but primarily for two reasons that have nothing to with Baxter Spann's outstanding design there.  The golf holes in my opinion are as interesting and as much fun as those at Pacific Dunes.  The two reasons for rating PD over BM are (1) the hard dirt rough at Black Mesa is not at all compatible with the sand in the bunkers, so it's impossible to achieve a smooth and seamless merging of man-made bunkers with surrounding ungrassed areas like Tom Doak was able to achieve at Pacific Dunes; and (2) the ocean is almost continuously in view at Pacific Dunes, a great advantage in aesthetics.

In terms of golf holes, with a couple of exceptions, I thought the Black Mesa holes were equal to Pacific Dunes, particularly the short par 4's and the box canyon par 3's.  And the great 17th fortress hole!  The 7th and 12th are probably as strategic as any short par 4's I've played.

Probably a fairer comparison would be Apache Stronghold vs Black Mesa!  Thoughts?

[Peter_Collins]

Baxter Spann designed a course outside of Kansas City called Sycamore Ridge that is at the very least interesting.  (Co-design credit is given to Jim Colbert).  The front nine is rather uninspired links-like design with few trees and lots of high wheat grass that is spread across a quarter section of old pasture.  The back nine has an entirely different personality as it winds its way through some very hilly terrain. There are some fantastic holes on the back nine.

[Matt_Ward]

Bill:

You raise a valid point on Black Mesa v Apache Stronghold but I would opt for the former. Why? The green complexes are mush richer in their overall variety than what you see at AS.

I like AS as much as the next person but the rich details that Baxter included at BM go a full step beyond what you see at AS.

Again -- I have to ask -- how does Pac Dunes rate as high as it does but Black Mesa is not even on the radar screen from a national perspective. The margin between them -- if anything at all IMHO -- is not that wide apart at all.

People need to take into account the groupie following that occurs with "name" architects and the extra -- but not course related aspect -- that a body of water imbues a course with. Black Mesa has the scenery of its own -- clearly natural to the New Mexico landscape -- the holes are well thought out and the range of options on each hole is clearly multi-dimensional.