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Tommy_Naccarato

-Granny Clark's Wynd.
-Ardmore Avenue
-Pine Valley Road
-The access roads for maintenance vehicle traffic (mowers, dumpsters, etc.)

What are some other examples, and why do they add such a flavor to the game? I can think of about twenty great courses at the top of my head that have some sort of road going through them.

(I do think the PA. Turnpike at Oakmont would be a horrible example! :))

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
The par 4 15th at Brookline has the road to the club house exactly in the driving area.  It rises up a foot or two with a swath of rough on both sides. As I recall at the Ryder Cup the big hitters were able to clear it.  Thus it can play as a minor hazard because of the rough surrounding it.

Bill Weber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Make sure the coast is clear and then hit it quick on the 7th a par 5 at Equinox in Manchester VT. The second shot crosses a road that bisects the course. The view to the road approaching on the left is partially obstructed by the third tee box and on the right by the 6th tee and trees beyond. A fun hole but one difficult to maintain concentration. ;)

TEPaul

The old road running through Philly Cricket is a good one. The road running through Pittsburgh Field Club is good too--long hitters can hit that road on the first!

One of the best, though, is the road that runs across the beautiful long downhill 3rd at GMGC---a road that Tom Fazio recommended be removed because it visually breaks up the hole. To TomF's credit he apparently did recommend that the road's history be investigated before removing it. I actually did that investigation and found that that old road (dirt now) was the road that Geo Washington used to move his army from Whitemarsh to fateful Valley Forge in the winter of 1777. Right next to that colonial road is an old house and farm building (which we use as our maintenance buildings) that belonged to that young and extremely attractive widow Sarah Hiptwitchett in those colonial times and I'm fairly sure the Father of our country spent the night there and pretty much nailed the widow Hiptwichett that night while our colonial army encamped on our massive 3rd fairway and around our 3rd and 4th greens and such. It's still a constant fight to stop the club from removing that road to improve the 3rd hole's "visuals" but I'm still working on preventing the historic road's removal.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 05:58:09 AM by TEPaul »

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
its been 16 years since I was there, but doesn't Mid-Ocean have a "road hole"???
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

A_Clay_Man

Seems like most of the Monterey Peninsula courses have at least one road runing thru it.
Cypress Point's road is like a worm hole where once you cross it you enter another kingdom. And when you cross it again, you really aren't in Kansas anymore. Everybodies favorite  Spanish Bay has this same road and believe it or not, has a similar change in tude, just not in the degree that CPC has.
Lake Chabot's entrance road is crossed more than once, maybe three times.
Spyglass Hill also has several road crossings.

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Unfortunately, in this litigious age, I imagine that there will be much redesign of golf holes in order to remove the threat of crippling legal costs.  Lindrick has already closed one of its old holes and built another to replace it.  Hunstanton now has traffic lights on the 18th which are operated by sensors.  If you are caught playing a shot while the lights are red you are thrown straight off the course.  

I don't think the road crossing St Enodoc does anything to enhance the golf.  West Cornwall has public footpaths crossing several holes and these have been sunk below high mounds so that the public cannot be hit as they walk through what must be very like 1st World War trenches.  A public footpath passes through the old back nine at Nefyn, and on summer weekends and bank holidays the place is swarming with familes who would be in the utmost danger were it not for the relief holes that have been constructed to avoid this (and to be available whenever there is a landslide - not uncommon).  Several public footpaths cross Open Championship courses - Lytham, Hoylake and Royal St George's, for starters.  A public road crosses the 17th at Alwoodley.  It is a relief that Liphook has now been by-passed, as the old A3 London-Portsmouth main road passed through the golf course (I was there on the unfortunate day when a lady member was killed trying to cross that road).  Now the road is very quiet, although it does not affect play.  The main London-Portsmouth railway line also runs through the course.  

A vast trunk road (the A64 York by-pass) cuts through Fulford and a friend of mine recently resigned his membership because he got so fed up with the steep ramps up to the high-level bridge crossing the road.  He now limits his memberships to Ganton and Rye! Ganton has a very significant lane crossing the 17th and 18th.  It should not be a factor on the 17th but is very much a threat on the 18th - perhaps the most strategic example of the use of a road with which I am acquainted.

The road crossing Royal Troon behind the 16th green is bordered by deep rough and I have several times lost a ball in there having played too strongly to the green and gone through the back.  

The road adjoining the 17th green at Hoylake was a considerable threat - it was not unkown for players to putt off the green and to go out-of-bounds on the road.  But the hole is no more.

The road crossing the 9th at Royal Worlington is always in your mind as you pitch to the green.

As a left-hander who slices all too frequently, I am always concerned on the 7th and 8th at Wilmslow, both of which run alongside a minor (but quite busy) road.  One of these days I shall hit a windscreen and cause a serious accident.  

A road (to the clubhouse and several private houses) crosses the 6th and 9th at Prestbury, although it does not enter the strategy of either hole.  Entrance and exit roads cross several holes at Mere and they cause no end of hold ups.

A maze of roads cross the various courses at Wentworth and you can see a great deal of the West Course simply by touring the estate.

Royal Blackheath was closed as long ago as the 1920s because of the advent of the motor car, with a number of public roads crossing the course.  

The most recent rebuild at Felixstowe Ferry was done because of potential legal claims with both a road and public paths crossing the course.

Ludlow, too, has suffered the same fate.

Having to cross a terribly busy main road on blind corners is the severe downside to the otherwise admirable Worplesdon.

Moor Park has a number of roads passing through the estate and crossing several holes.

The 1st at St George's Hill crosses a road (which should not be a factor in play) - it is an excellent hole, road or no road.

Several roads and paths cross Painswick, but I played so abominably there that I was rarely on the course and therefore have no clue how they might have affected normal play!  Certainly the 17th is seriously complicated by the presence of roads.

On maturer reflection I think only the 18th at Ganton, 9th at Royal Worlington and old 17th at Royal Liverpool are holes on which the presence of the road is a plus factor.

As for railways, how sad it is that steam-powered trains no longer puff their way from St Andrews to Leuchars Junction.  The 1st at Prestwick is a great railway hole and I like the 9th and 11th at Maesdu, in North Wales.  The close at Sheringham is much enhanced by the presence of a preserved steam railway running alongside.  The approach to the 11th at Royal Troon, its green abutting the railway tracks, is always exciting.  A railway is also a considerable factor in the close at North Hants (Justin Rose's home course).  It's too many years since last I played there, but is it the 16th which plays very tight alongside the railway?  The 4th at Woking, of course, is still a good hole because of two bunkers and a railway line.

The little branch line (which is threatened with closure) running through West Cornwall adds to its charms.

We've had a thread on airports and courses recently, but I should just mention Lymm, a little course on the outskirts of Warrington of no particular merit other than the fact that it is build on spoil tipped there when the famous Manchester Ship Canal was built in the 19th century.  Few big ships now ply the canal, but I can remember as a child seeing big, ocean-going freighters and tankers in large numbers steaming along the canal.  The 6th and 8th holes play along the banks of the canal and the temptation to use a passing banana boat as a moving target must have been great once upon a time.

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tommy -
How could you forget Sebonac Road?

Still waiting for your response on the Little Diamond Quarry thread re: your pot shot.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 12:14:13 PM by SPDB »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Anyone ever played Delaveaga, the muni course in Santa Cruz, CA?
The course sits on top of a hill (literally), so there are red stakes around the entire perimeter of the course. The interior of the course is bisected by a road that is in play on at least half the holes. I can't remember whether the road is staked red or white. The road or the lateral hazards are in play on just about every shot you take on the course.

The course is par-72 and less than 6,000 yards. Due to the hazards, the slope is 137 or so.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
I actually did that investigation and found that that old road (dirt now) was the road that Geo Washington used to move his army from Whitemarsh to fateful Valley Forge in the winter of 1777. Right next to that colonial road is an old house and farm building (which we use as our maintenance buildings) that belonged to that young and extremely attractive widow Sarah Hiptwitchett in those colonial times and I'm fairly sure the Father of our country spent the night there and pretty much nailed the widow Hiptwichett that night while our colonial army encamped on our massive 3rd fairway and around our 3rd and 4th greens and such.

TEP

Video evidence will be needed to support this claim. You can email it to me direct. ;D :-*

THuckaby2

David:

You must have been one of the LONG list of golfers who was told DeLaveaga was a "junior Pasatiempo"... looked at the card, saw the short distance, licked your chops... and then came home licking your wounds.  Oh yes, that is a tricky, tight, weird, and I say very fun very cool golf course.

I've played there too many times... mostly in tournaments.  The course is not good for one's psyche.

BUT... the road you mention doesn't come into play THAT many times.  It's in play only on:

left of 1
left of 6
right of 10
way over the green on 14
way right of 15
way right of 18

You do cross it a couple other times walking from green to tee.

Interestingly, as you seemingly overestimated the road's presence at Delaveaga, Adam underestimated it at Lak Chabot (another of my haunts).  You hit your ball over the road on 2, 3, 4, 5 and 11... it's directly to your left and definitely in play on 1... that six holes where it is in play for sure.

TH
« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 12:47:05 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Allan Long

  • Karma: +0/-0
Players driving to the clubhouse at Tobacco Road must drive right under (hopefully) the drives coming off the 18th tee.
I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
--C.B. Macdonald

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tom H. -

De Laveaga will always have a place near and dear to me as I made a hole-in-one (my first)  on #5 in the 1996 Santa Cruz City Amateur and won a Honda Civic (which I needed at the time and am still driving!).

Your are right. The road is not in play quite as much as I thought. However, if you hit it long and left on #11 (par-3), I think you can bounce it on the pavement.

DT

THuckaby2

DT - well you are one up on me in the ace department... but I must say that very same hole is about the closest I have ever come.  I lipped out a shot backing up to a front pin... to this day I have no idea why it didn't go in, other than the golf gods decided to hate me.   ;)

Good call re #11 - althought that does take a very long, very left shot, oh yes, I have seen that happen.  Not by me thankfully - though I have hit it on 10 fairway off that tee, to the right.


SB

  • Karma: +0/-0
#1 at Stanford.  You can't see it, but you know it's there.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
How about the tee ball on #16 at Pebble Beach, you have to wait for the traffic on Palmero Way to clear ... Cypress Drive also impacts the rarely used back tee on #17
"... and I liked the guy ..."

David Sneddon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Quote from: Mark_Rowlinson l
[quote

I noticed in the courses with no sand thread you mentioned Berkhamstead GC.

Berkhamstead also has two holes that cross a road. Can't remember the hole # but you cannot see any traffic from the tee, and really require a spotter, since the tee is at road level, and approx 20 yards from the roadway itself.

The 9th crosses the road again, but the road is well below the line of play.

Been some years since I played there - tough course.
Give my love to Mary and bury me in Dornoch

Ken Bramlett

No. 1 at Yeamans Hall down near Charleston.  The club entry road crosses the first fairway as it winds back to the clubhouse, and is definitely in play off the first tee for the longer drivers.

Off the beaten path, but add No. 4 at the Rockaway Hunting Club up in the Five Towns area of Long Island.  Rockaway is a neat old club built in 1900 and redesigned by Tillinghast in the 1920's.  Four is a short par three, and the green is tucked up against narrow residential roads on three sides.  Not a particularly hard hole (only about 130 to 145 yards in length), but the visual causes a lot of puckering.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mid Ocean does have crossing roads in play several times.  I'm thinking of #2 or #3 where you are driving uphill and don't realize there's a road there until you get to it walking up the fairway.  CB MacDonald did a very clever job hiding the road behind a berm.  And you also knock it across the same road playing the lengthy Biarritz which I believe is #13.  And the road is in play down the right side on the preceding par 4 #12.  

ian

Tommy,

The enterance into Toronto Golf Club, cuts right in front of the 6th tee. The drive to the clubhouse begins right of the 6th tee, crosses in front and continues down the left side of the entire hole (one of Colt's finest). Drives by the (par 3) 7th and around the back to peak out acrosss the 10th, 11th and 12th. Turns hard left just in time to skirt by the famous 9th hole at the green. Continues through the trees and cuts right under and in front of the 18th tees. The drive continues up the left of the 18th while providing glimpses onto the opening hole. Finally the drive ends at a small parking lot appears with the crazy rambling brick clubhouse at the end of your view.

This is still the best driveway in golf. Yes, better than Magnolia Lane.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 08:26:53 PM by Ian Andrew »

Wayne Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
I haven't been there for quite a while, but doesn't Newport CC have a road leading to the clubhouse cutting right across the 18th fairway that you hit your second shot over?

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Royal Dornoch has a road to the beach that runs right in front of the 1st tee. There is a road at Golspie that cuts in front of both the green of the par-4 8th hole and the tee of the par-4 12th hole.    

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
How about St. Andrews Road running through Shinnecock?
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wayne..the parking lot at Newport sits a bit away from the clubhouse essentially in a field with a road to the clubhouse.  The road, however, runs behind the 9th green and does not really come into play.  BTW the nines at Newport will be reversed for the Women's Open...Might also add that the 1st and 10th tees at Shennecosett have a road right in front of them that cuts through the course and one must hit over on their tee shot.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 08:07:14 AM by Cliff Hamm »

Robert Emmons

  • Karma: +0/-0
#4 and #7...Huntington Country Club