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Brian Phillips

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2003, 03:16:57 AM »
Doug,

I am really sorry to say this but that is absolutely bull.  The ground they had to work with on the north part of the site was AWFUL.  I have a whole host of pictures to prove it.  It was all farmland.  In fact I have a picture of the first green before construction which shows farmland with hay on it!

I agree with you that sometimes you do feel as you walk around the site that in some areas they have gone over the top but the course is only a few years old.  Of all the courses I have visited since I started playing golf it is the greatest golf construction achievement I have seen.  I compare it to Sand Hills for what they achieved.

Sand Hills is a perfect routing and Kingsbarns is a near perfect construction.

I agree that I wouldn't put it in my top five but I would definately put it in my top ten.  As an architect or anyone interested in design not just playing golf then Kingsbarns is top of the list of courses to visit to learn what can be achieved when a fantastic team of people are put together.


I have a slow modem at the moment and will post the photos of Kingsbarns when I move up to ADSL in the next 14 days.  Many will be surprised by how bland that piece of land was.  

Brian Phillips.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Tim Weiman

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2003, 08:58:28 AM »
Brian Phillips:

Thanks for clarifying the background regarding Kingsbarn. A while back Art Dunkley encouraged me to go have a look. One of these days, I'll have to do so.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

hoggmeister

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2003, 09:59:43 AM »
Tim W--

I enjoyed your comments about the Cashen course. My son and I  played the course last year in a 40 MPH and loved it. I was very very happy to shoot 88.  I remember hitting an 8 iron to a small plateau green (17 ? )and aiming at least 50 yards out over the beach. More americans should give the course a shot.

Since you know the course so well, I have a longwinded story of our round that you might enjoy.

We walked the course with a couple from Texas who had to be in their early 80s. He had been a surgeon and a passoniate golfer, but was now going blind and wanted to make a final trip to Ireland. His wife lined him up on every shot like a LPGA caddie. Given the terrain, and the lining up, this was a very long round. Luckily they were the two nicest people on earth .We had all the time in the world and  seemed to be the only people on the course so we helped the two of them around, and up and down, the course.

Toward the end of the round we came to a short downhill par three. After being lined up, the husband hit his shot high in the air and way off to the right and then literally walked  off the teebox. The wind somehow carried the ball on to the green and then, given the slope of the green, the ball started rolling toward the hole. The three of us were jumping up and down and yelling at him, but the husband --who was also very hard of hearing--wandered down the path. The ball ended up 3 inches from the cup. He never saw a thing. As we walked to the green he told me he had played for over 50 years and never had a hole in one. When he finally saw where the ball was, he told one look and walked to the next teebox. His wife asked us to putt for a while before we joined him.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2003, 12:40:25 PM »
Hoggmeister:

Thanks for your comments about the Cashen. Since you mentioned #17, I should probably say it is the one golf hole in the world I would most like to play well......and usually don't, because while it is a short par five, in the typical wind both the tee shot and the shot to the green can be very hard.

The club is mulling over some modifications to the course. Most are focused on making the walk a bit easier. I would also like to see the landing area for the tee shot on #17 widened a bit. Even if they didn't move much dirt, it would be helpful to widen the area free from the long thick rough.

I can appreciate your story about the old couple. One of the nice things about the Cashen is that since so many visitors have heard bad things, most of the time there are very few people on the course.

The par three you described was #16, one of the holes featured in Slazenger advetisements. Even playing downhill from about 145 yards, you often have to take a six or even five iron and aim out over the beach. Years ago I used to try playing it with a pitching wedge, but that was really pretty foolish and almost a sure lost ball.

That is one thing about the Cashen: you often have to put distance aside and think very carefully about the wind. I remember playing with some first time visitors from the States. We were about 125 yards from the 15th green and these guys were trying to reach it with nine irons.

"Guys", I said, "125 yards is at least a six iron". Foolishly, they insisted one sticking with their nine irons.......and managed shots of maybe 80 yards.

Seeing that I went with my five to the middle of the green. I have no idea if these guys will ever return.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Keith Durrant

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2003, 03:36:23 PM »
Would like to recommend Carlow Golf Club which is somewhat off the beaten path, but stands up well against many top clubs.

Extremely friendly and welcoming, with a strong competitive amateur tradition as a club.

http://www.carlowgolfclub.com/

A great day's golf.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

buckeye_bob

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2003, 12:23:56 PM »
THE FOLLOWING ARE MY CHOSEN (5):


                 ROYAL COUNTY DOWN
                  
                 DOONBEG

                 MUIRFIELD

                 ST. ANDREWS (O)

                 TURNBERRY
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Doug Siebert

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2003, 05:15:48 PM »
I replied to this yesterday but it looks like my reply was lost somehow...

I have to admit surprise that Kingsbarns was built on flat farmland.  The surrounding land on the drive up from the road was obviously flat, but the valleys through which many of the fairways travel looked natural to me, and remind one of some of the holes at Turnberry that have a similar feel.  Odd that they did such a good job there, but made such unnatural and in few cases ridiculous greens (both to my eye, of course)  The greens just don't fit with the rest of the course.

I guess the whole thing is a matter of taste, but I shouldn't have made assumptions about what they started with, thanks for the corrections (yummm, crow!)  I do agree that it is quite an achievement to take boring land and make the overall course look like they had a perfect site to work with.  I seem to remember hearing someone suggest that they had toned down the 9th green, perhaps others.  If they take care of some of the over the top stuff they did and make it fit better with the rest of the course, it would be a great improvement IMHO.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
My hovercraft is full of eels.

mike_beene

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2003, 08:52:17 PM »
Old Course,Muirfield,Kingsbarns,North Berwick,Turnberry.I wasn't going to post but I wanted to stand up for Kingsbarns,which in my opinion is the total package.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Sean_A

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2009, 04:36:32 AM »
This is an interesting thread because of the Cashen and Kingsbarns comments.  I was also surprised how many folks listed Portstewart rather than Portrush.  Anyway:

Ballybuinion
Carne
Co Sligo
Enniscrone
Royal Portrush Valley

Brora
Machrihanish
North Berwick
Prestwick
Royal Dornoch

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend & Alnmouth

Mark Chaplin

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2009, 05:01:25 AM »
"Ian's" point in 2003 that the Kings course at Gleneagles will always be punished for being "too American" made me titter as it was designed by James Braid in 1919. He must have confused it with the 3rd course there!
Cave Nil Vino

Andrew Bertram

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2009, 05:29:56 AM »
My favourites, as in most enjoyable rather than best are as follows:

Scotland
North Berwick West
TOC
Royal Dornoch
Cruden Bay
Western Gailes (just ahead of Turnberry)

Ireland
Royal County Down
County Louth
Doonbeg
Lahinch
Ballybunion

When i started thinking of this i realised that my Scotland list of courses i really enjoyed as "fun" golf courses was twice as long as in Ireland. Courses played are similar in number, i feel i just enjoyed a far greater number of the Scottish courses.



Ally Mcintosh

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2009, 06:15:01 AM »
I know it's all opinion but mine is that there is a clear top rank of five courses in Ireland so I'll list those:

In no particular order,

Royal County Down
Royal Portrush
Portmarnock
Lahinch
Ballybunion

I think it is certainly less clear in Scotland...

Kevin Pallier

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2009, 06:29:27 AM »
In Ireland / N-Ireland

Royal County Down
Royal Portrush
Ballybunion
Lahinch
Portmarnock

In Scotland
St. Andrews
Muirfield
Royal Dornoch
North Berwick
Carnoustie

Ian Andrew

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2009, 08:57:12 AM »
Mark,

Ian is an idiot - judging by his list! ;D

At the time there was a thread or two on Gleneagles that panned the course because it was not a links.
The reference was to that fact and not to the designers background.

Since then I've made a few more trips to Scotland and played more of the courses.

This would be the five that I would want to play again if I went back:

Prestwick
North Berwick
TOC
Royal Dornoch
Cruden Bay

Funny how much the list has changed with a couple of visits.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 09:04:48 AM by Ian Andrew »

Mac Plumart

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2009, 09:21:46 AM »
Ian...

I am reading this post, but can't comment as I haven't had the good fortune to make the trip to the British Isles yet...

However your comment...

"Funny how much the list has changed with a couple of visits. "

seems truly insightful.

Also, your list intrigues me very much.

Thanks!
 
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Jud_T

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2009, 09:36:00 AM »
St. Andrews
Prestwick
Carnoustie
Kingsbarns
Turnberry

RCD
Ballybunion
Lahinch
Portmarnock
Waterville
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Carl Nichols

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2009, 10:36:19 AM »
Sean:
Are those your favorite courses in Ireland, or your best values?  I like Portrush Valley, but it's not in my top 5 ..... and I haven't even made it to the Southwest.

Sean_A

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2009, 10:38:58 AM »
Sean:
Are those your favorite courses in Ireland, or your best values?  I like Portrush Valley, but it's not in my top 5 ..... and I haven't even made it to the Southwest.

Carl

Those are my favourites - the ones I have the most time for.  

The Valley ain't a great course, but its good and plenty interesting enough to keep me happy.

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 10:47:14 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend & Alnmouth

Andrew Mitchell

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2009, 11:38:57 AM »
The top 5 courses I've played in Scotland:
Muirfield
Royal Dornoch
The Old Course
North Berwick
Kingsbarns

I've only played 5 courses in Ireland so that's easy  ;D
Ballybunion (Old)
European Club
Tralee
Killarney (Mahoney's Point)
Killarney (Kileen)
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2009, 01:38:53 PM »
Ireland:
Royal County  Down
Royal Portrush
Ballybunion
Lahinch
The European Club

Scotland:
Royal dornoch
Muirfield
Boat of Garten
The Old Course
Prestwick
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Rory Connaughton

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2009, 02:39:48 PM »
RCD
Enniscrone
Portrush
Portmarnock
Lahinch

Alister Matheson

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2009, 04:01:35 PM »
 scottish favourites Machrihanish,Brora ,Castle Stuart,Royal Dornoch ,North Berwick West,Fraserburgh,Southerness
Cruden Bay Links Maintenance Blog

http://crudenbaylinks.blogspot.com/

Cristian

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2009, 06:41:27 PM »
Ireland:

Royal Portrush (What does it say of a man, if he prefers it over RCD?)
RCD
Ballybunion
Ballyliffin Old
Dooks

Scotland: (I did not play TOC)

Machrihanish
Dornoch
Glasgow gailes
Boat of Garten
TNC at St Andrews







Robert Thompson

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2009, 08:14:58 AM »
If this is a question of what I'd like to play again, then in Scotland it is:

Dornoch
North Berwick
Muirfield
TOC
Prestwick

Ireland I'd like to check out (for a second time)
Portrush
County Down
Portmarnock

I don't think I'd immediately head back to the European Club, certainly wouldn't go out of my way to see K Club again, and County Louth was fine, but a bit underwhelming.
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Jud_T

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Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2009, 08:25:03 AM »
Robert,

agree with TEC sentiment, but not County Louth....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

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