News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotland...
« on: January 09, 2003, 10:02:33 AM »
I'm in the middle of reading "A Season in Dornoch" right now and just finished Finegan's book "Emerald Fairways and Foam Flecked Seas"  and am getting the itch bad to take a trip to either Ireland or Scotland.  

For those of you that have played, what are your top 5 favorites in both Ireland and Scotland?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

wsmorrison

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2003, 10:15:01 AM »
I've only been to Scotland and limiting a list to 5 courses is too difficult to do, so I am listing 10 in no particular order:

The Old Course
Royal Dornoch
Muirfield
North Berwick
Turnberry
Prestwick
Cruden Bay
Royal Aberdeen
Nairn
Western Gailes
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Stan Dodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2003, 10:20:49 AM »
Have not been to Ireland (will fix that this summer)so here are my favorites in Scotland no particular order and still many to play
Cruden Bay
North Berwick
Machrihanish
Dornoch
Royal Aberdeen
Dunbar
TOC
Carnoustie
Panmure
Braid Hills

Cheers
Stan
Brora
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jim_H

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2003, 10:50:01 AM »
Not too original (but listed in order)--

Ireland--
  Royal County Down  (best course in the world--period)
  Royal Portrush
  Ballybunion
  Old Head (maybe a bit controversial to rate it this high, but
     the site is without equal and the course is improving)
  Portmarnock (unless you count only the good nine at
     Portstewart as a full course)

Scotland--
  Muirfield
  Royal Dornoch
  Troon
  Turnberry
  Carnoustie
      (Not an oversight--TOC intentionally left off)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

CHrisB

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2003, 10:56:18 AM »
My favorites...

Scotland:
TOC
Cruden Bay
Royal Dornoch
Muirfield
North Berwick

N./Ireland:
Royal County Down (my absolute favorite anywhere)
Ballybunion
Royal Portrush (Dunluce)
Lahinch
??
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul P

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2003, 11:22:01 AM »
In no particular order...

Ireland

Royal County Down
Enniscrone
Portmarnock
Ballybunion
Baltray (Co Louth)

Also in with a shout would be Rosses Point, European Club, Druid's Glenn, Headfort New, Murvagh, Waterville....


Scotland (from a limited experience)

Turnbury
Muirfield
Old Course
.....


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul P

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2003, 11:24:11 AM »
Oh, forgot Lahinch - my favourate.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2003, 11:44:09 AM »
Only been to Ireland
   1)Ballybunion Old--I think it is because i love the delayed gratification.Each time the tension builds until the 6-7th holes and then the thrill doesn't stop after that.
  2)Royal County Down ---The thrill starts earlier,standing on the 3rd tee,then the 4th and so on.
 3)Portmarnock---less dramatic then#1 or#2,but consistently strong.
  4)Royal Portrush-----I rate lower than others because i often do not know where to hit the ball--several doglegs with nothing to give a  visual clue where  the fairway is.
  5)Lahinch--Portstewart---County Louth---Island
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
AKA Mayday

Dan Grossman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2003, 12:50:21 PM »
You should read Finnegan's book on Scotland, too - Blasted Heaths and Blessed Greens.

In no particular order:

Ireland
Royal County Down
Royal Portrush
Lahinch
Baltray
The Island

(haven't played Ballybunion)

Scotland
Cruden Bay
Western Gailes
Elie
Murcar
Gleneagles (Kings)

(haven't played Prestwick, Troon, N. Berwick, TOC or Muirfield)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2003, 03:50:24 PM »
Ask me tomorrow and they might be different...  I've only been in the western side of Ireland, so I'm obviously missing a bunch of great courses.


TOC
Muirfield
Crail (Craigshead)
Prestwick
North Berwick
Carnoustie

Old Ballybunion
Lahinch
Connemara
Tralee
Killarney (Killeen)


Yeah, I listed 6 for Scotland but I had to include Carnoustie since I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for it since I got my first ace on its 16th.  Crail's Craigshead is new and most people haven't seen it yet, but its one hell of a course, I'm liking it better and better as time goes by.  While it may not have the history TOC or Prestwick does, but the wall that runs through (and is part of) the course predates even the Roman walls that run through England so it isn't without interest for those who might sneer at something so new.

I need to return to Dornoch, you'll note it didn't make my list.  But its been nearly 12 years since I was there, everyone else loves it so much I figure I must be missing something.  My only problem would be which of my other top 5 I'd have to cut to make room for it if its stock did go up!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
My hovercraft is full of eels.

John Bernhardt

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2003, 04:28:33 PM »
Royal County Down
Portrush
Ballybunion
Portmarnock
Traylee

TOC
Royal Dornoch
Turnberry Aisla
Cruden Bay
Muirfield/Machrihanish/Last 12 holes at Troon too close to call
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

MartyMueller

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2003, 05:59:29 PM »

Quote
Royal County Down
Portrush
Ballybunion
Portmarnock
Traylee

TOC
Royal Dornoch
Turnberry Aisla
Cruden Bay
Muirfield/Machrihanish/Last 12 holes at Troon too close to call

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

MartyMueller

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2003, 06:13:19 PM »
1.  County Down  -- no debate resonably possible that this is among the top 5 in Ireland
2.  Druid's Glen -- debateable, I am sure, but this is the only other place on the planet that "feels" like                           setting foot on Augusta.  Probably the only "parkland" that is a must, with all due respect to                           Killarney.
3.  Lahinch --  incredible, quirky tract in an awesome setting
4.  Ballybunion Old -- the quintissential (sp?) Irish links
5.  Old Head -- Probably the greatest piece of golf course property in the world -- worth the trip south

Others virtually as good:  Portrush, Portstewart, Waterville, Royal Dublin and Portmaronock (sp?)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ian

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2003, 06:27:07 PM »
Scotland only:
1 Royal Dornoch
2. Muirfield
3. Carnoustie
4. The Old Course
5. Gleneagles, Kings (great setting, great course, always will be punished for being "too American"

If you love history or "the quirky" ;D, Prestwick could easiely be first. So different, so good!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2003, 07:55:36 PM »
Scotland (in order):

Cruden Bay
Old Course
Dornoch
Machrahanish
Turnberry


Ireland:

County Down
Ballybunion
Portrush
Lahinch
Portstewart
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2003, 08:05:10 PM »
I assume you are asking for a list of favorite courses, places we have been to and would like to play again, not necessarily our ranking of "greatest" courses we have played.
In no special order-
Ireland: County Down, Lahinch, Ballybunion, Narin & Portnoo and Portrush
Britain: St. Endoc, Birkdale, Hillside, Dornoch and Cruden Bay (have played more in England than Scotland)
Narin & Portnoo and St. Endoc make the list for being very high on the "fun" factor.    
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

bodgeblack

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2003, 03:58:21 AM »
My favourite, most enjoyable 5 in Scotland;

1. Western Gailes
2. Tain
3. Strathpeffer Spa
4. Boat of Garten
5. Royal Dornoch

Happy summer holidays as a wee boy!!

cheers

Jamie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John Bernhardt

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2003, 08:16:24 AM »
I need to replace Traylee with Lahinch.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jim_H

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2003, 09:22:08 AM »
When we are listing Ballybunion, we are all talking about the old course there, I'm sure.  Does anyone, other than me, wonder how the new course at Ballybunion can be so bad, sitting next to such a great course and with the same basic land and terrain?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2003, 11:44:03 AM »
Jim,

I have heard mixed things about the Cashen course at Ballybunion, it really is a love/hate thing, not many people in the middle.  I've heard a lot of locals in Ireland actually prefer the new course and think that it will prove itself over time.  

Has anyone here played the Cashen course?  Your thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2003, 06:41:53 PM »
Jim H:

When you suggest that the Cashen sits on the "same basic land and terrain" as the Old course at Ballybunion, I have to wonder how carefully you have looked at both properties.

Do you really think these properties are basically the same?


JimmyV:

I'm probably more familiar with the Cashen than any regular participant at GCA. Not only have I played the course countless times, but one of my best friends worked closely with RTJ when the course was being designed and built. In fact, he was the person who hit balls for Mr. Jones in order to determine green locations.

Nobody loves the Cashen more than I do. There is no place in the world I would rather be. I feel that way playing it in January just as much as I do in August.

That said, there are a couple points which should be understood. First, the Cashen can be very difficult to play. I often feel that it is easier to break 80 on the the Old course than 90 on the Cashen. With the kind of wind that frequents Ballybunion, the course can be downright brutal.

It could be said that Mr. Jones did not appreciate how savage the winds can be when he designed the greens and some of the landing areas. The greens on the Cashen are fairly small and usually elevated making run up shots impossible. You have to hit very accurate approach shots to score and avoid disaster. The width of fairways is not as big an issue, but on holes like #7, 15 and 17 it can make things very difficult.

Beyond the shotmaking challenge, the Cashen is a difficult course to walk even with the softening that has taken place over the years. Many people just get worn out walking the course. High scores and fatigue take their toll.

Then, too, the Cashen never made a good first impression. That is to say that the grow in didn't go very well and for most of the 1980's, conditioning was not very good.

With all that, the Cashen is still the course that makes me appreciate being alive more than any other. I won't call it great architecture, but nowhere else quite touches my soul.

But, I wouldn't say a lot of locals prefer the Cashen. In fact, whenever I say I do, they usually think I'm a bit nuts. However, in recent years it seems more club events are held on the Cashen and nobody complains a bit.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill Gayne

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2003, 07:46:38 PM »
You really can't go wrong with any of the Irish courses mentioned. I agree that the Ballybunion Old is the superior course. However, there are some very good holes on the Cashen course especially number 13. Every time that I've been there it has not been crowded and the pace of play has moved along nicely which doesn't always happen on the Old Course. As for a trip to Ireland, I would focus on a particular region. The drive for five courses from Belfast to Dublin to Cork to Ballybunion and then west Clare or out to the west of Ireland would be difficult. A great five course trip for me a couple of years ago was Old Head, Waterville, Tralee, Dooks, and Ballybunion. Another five course trip that I did last summer was Doonbeg, Lahinch, Rosses Point, Enniscrone, and Carne. Allow time for driving and to enjoy the country side.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ddavid426

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2003, 08:41:47 PM »
Agree with everyone, but am wondering what happened to Kingsbarns?  Also am pleased to see so many mentioning Western Gailes.  What a fabulous course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2003, 12:18:48 AM »
I played Kingsbarns, it wasn't in my top 5 for a reason.  It wouldn't make my top 10, and I've probably only played 15 courses over there.  I don't dislike it, but I feel the six I listed, plus a few others (both Troon courses, Dornoch, Turnberry, Western Gailes, St. Andrews New) are better.  It tries too hard to be something it is not, when what it could have been if done right would have been wonderful.  Maybe as it matures they'll de-artificialize some of the green contours and give the bunkers a more natural look and my opinion of it will improve.  It just doesn't look natural, which is a crime considering the land they had to work with!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Tim Weiman

Re: List your top 5 courses in Ireland and Scotlan
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2003, 12:31:23 AM »
Doug Siebert:

I'm curious why you suggest the Kingsbarn property was so good to work with. Wasn't it nothing more than flat farm land? Isn't everything about the course created?

Truthfully, I'm not that familiar with the project details, but I've never heard anyone suggest they started with anything special.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »