Changes at Arcadia Bluffs

[Buck Wolter]

From the website:

"The Golf course underwent a few modifications in the late fall of 2004. The front right section of the green on #13 (Par 3 across the ravine) was lowered approximately one foot, resulting in a more receptive green and more accessible hole location. The sod walled bunker that fronted that front right portion is now two smaller sod walls, and the sod walled bunker on the left front of the green was wrapped around in front of the green. The look from the tee is awesome, and shots landing on that front right section will now stay on the green, rather than kicking to the back and sometimes off the green.

The green on Hole #14, the short narrow Par 4, was modified as well. The back left portion of the green had a large swale that funneled many approach shots off the back and into a collection area. That large swale was “filled in”, so now approach shots landing on the front to middle of the green should remain on the green.

The green on Hole #5, the Par 5 that runs to the lake, was also slightly altered. The right center portion was raised slightly, to allow approach shots to stay on the green rather than run through and into the fringe leaving a very awkward pitch/chip.

We are excited about the changes and hope they lead to a more fair and playable course, as well as speed up play!!!"

Interesting changes, #13(Old #9) can be a brute depending on the teebox and wind, the swale on the back of that bunker definitely would push you off the back if you landed on it. I can't recall the area of 14 they are talking about but it's a fairly severe greensite. Most interesting to me is #5 which (used to be) a biarritz green set almost perpendicular to the fairway on a par 5. Warren Henderson has commented on here before about AB, be interesting to get his take on the changes - I seem to remember a dialog here between Tom Doak and Warren regarding the severity of #13/#9.

FYI - through May 8 Greenfees are $75 -- $100 off the high season rates.

Buck

[Jonathan McCord]

    I played Arcadia Bluffs last October while they were making these changes.  The course was in fairly good shape but the greeens were not as smooth as I remembered from the previous year.  However, after playing Crystal Downs and Forest Dunes last fall, there are a lot of greens that wouldn't seem up to par.

    Back to the changes.  The fifth green is still a biarritz.  All they did was raise the right side of the green, in the lower portion of the biarritz, so instead of balls rolling off the green towards the lake, the balls would stay on the green leaving a putt from the low part of the biarritz green.

    The 13th green setting, albeit quite rough when I was there, is now very attractive.  The back left bunker now wraps around the front left of the green and the new bunkers in front on the green frame it nicely.  I actually landed my teeshot in the sod that had just been laid over the two new bunkers in the front right, and my ball, infact, stayed on. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

    The undulation on rear of the 14th green had not been softened yet.  However, if you go to the website the first picture that pops up on the homepage is from just behind 14 showing the swale they filled in, or softened.

http://www.arcadiabluffs.com/
 
    The changes the made were pretty good and the course is still one that needs to be played.  56th in the U.S?, I'll leave that for you to determine.

[John Foley]

Jonathan,

I'm a huge fan of Arcadia. I think the green complexes are fantastic, it has all the strategy in the world, a first class routing, all the teeth any scratch could want, wow factors off the chart & nothing I can point to which would not make it a must play.

Is it deservance of a ranking that high? Can't comment to that, but I do think it's a fantastic course.

Being in the area and short of Crystal Downs, what do you think is better?

[Joel_Stewart]

The 13th was a bitch from all the way back, almost impossible.  I talked to Warren Henderson about it after I played it and he was comfortable with it and wasn't considering any changes.  I'm glad I wasn't the only one.

[Jonathan McCord]

    Mr. Foley, I as well am a big fan of Arcadia.  It is just about unbeatable in the "WOW" factor category.  The views of Lake Michigan are absolutely unbeatable.

    56th on the Greatest in America list was a little high in my book, but it is certainly a great public course in the United States.  The changes they made will make it more playable for the average golfer and that is definately the target market.  

    As for courses that are better, if you haven't been to Forest Dunes Golf Club, Roscommon, Michigan it is well worth a trip.  It is a Tom Weiskopf design and was supposed to go private this year.  However, in checking their website, it appears that they will be public again this year.  Forest Dunes has a very clever routing and was compared to both Pine Valley, which fits, because of the waste areas and sandy pine forest terrain, and Augusta National, because of the shape and style some of its bunkers.  I will admit, the Augusta comparison is a bit of a stretch.

    I think they are having trouble establishing a membership.  However, in speaking with the head pro last fall, once they get a certain number of members, which was quite large if I recall, they are planning another course which he told me was to be designed by Coore and Crenshaw.  If Forest Dunes can establish a membership and get that C&C course, it would make for an amazing private destination.  But as far as I know, it is open to the public again this year.

    But back to Arcadia.  It certainly is a great course, and I have not been to Bay Harbor in Northern Michigan, but it to looks to be worth the trip.  It is a group of 27 holes that has some views of Petoskey Bay and would also fit your palet.  Not as linksy, not even the links nine, as Arcadia, but also has the Quarry and Preserve Nines to suit any golfers preference.

    So in conclusion.  Arcadia Bluffs, Bay Harbor, and Forest Dunes.  These are some destinations that would be worth the trip.

[John Foley]

Jonathan,

Had a friend play Forest Dunes and he concurs, it's a very good place. How far is it from Arcadia?

As for the WOW factor, try playing 18 with the setting sun at your back and shadows growing long. WOW.

Do you know why was the routing changed?

BTW - Mr. Foley was my Dad!

[Jonathan McCord]

    Mr. Foley, OH I mean John,  Arcadia is probably about 2 to 2 and half hours from Forest Dunes which is just NE of Roscommon.  Like I said before, definately two of the best in the state.

    As to why they changed the routing, I'm not positive.  But if I recall when I played it in the Fall of 2003, didn't the tenth hole end up aways from the clubhouse.  I'm not sure but I know 9 is that Par 3 with the large tree on the right and ten is the par 4 with the aiming post on the right.  Its just before the long par 5 down towards the lake.  I would assume the clubhouse makes more food and beverage money this way, and it is more convenient to stop by at the turn then it was before.  Not positive, but that would be my guess.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I had heard that the change in routing at AB has to do with allowing to golfer to have access to the clubhouse/grill area more often during the round....I guess that the new routing allows for that.

[JakaB]

People who pay big greenfees don't like 3 par 5's in the first five holes....did they correct that.   And don't tell me it is stupid not to like something like that because people just don't..

[Jonathan McCord]

   The routing of the the first sequence of holes has not changed.  It still starts 5,3,5,4,5.  I am curious as to why golfers don't like that many par 5's right off the bat.  I don't see a problem with it.

   And it is also true that the new routing does allow more stops by the clubhouse. $$$$$

[Buck Wolter]

Must be the fact that raters don't pay that makes them like it so much. I hate the 3 par 5's in the first 5 holes so much I've only paid to play it 10-12 times.

Don't waste your time with Bay Harbor unless you're in Petoskey -- some pretty cool holes on the Quarry 9 but when you look at what they had to work with it should have been as good as Whistling Straits or Arcadia and it isn't anywhere close. Plus it's considerably more expensive than Arcadia.

Interesting how well AB did in Golf Digest compared to Kingsley. Golfweek has them ranked pretty close. I seem to remember Whitten raving about Kingsley -- he must not have much sway with the group.

[Jonathan McCord]

   The Kingsley Club has one of the best websites I've seen.  They have incredible photographs of the course, and from what I've seen and heard, they should be rated much higher.  Kingsley has been called the Crystal Downs of the 21st century and by the pictures and descriptions I've seen and read, I would have to agree.

   Once, Kingsley matures and has the years CDCC has had to settle, it to will be one of the greatest in the U.S.  I do feel that the Kingsley Club is deserving of a higher rating then Arcadia, but not having played Kingsley, this means nothing.  I make my judgements from what I see and read.

   However, a lot of poeple, including myself, love looking out over Lake Michigan, who doesn't.  Should the fact that Arcadia is on the lake and has spectacular views and sunsets make in a better COURSE.  No, the task at hand, is rating "courses."

[RJ_Daley]

Interesting routing change.  I wonder if Warren Henderson had that idea as an option all along.  Going over it in my mind, I think it may be a better route.  

The 3 par 5s in first 5 holes wasn't really something that jumped in my mind as a negative when I played there.  However, the trek down towards the lake on 3-4-5 is more noticable as a negative as they play the same direction.  The same direction is compensated by the interesting approaches that are varied widely in those three holes.

[S. Huffstutler]

The course was rerouted a couple of times during construction, this new routing allows for returning nines, the routing that they opened with had non-returning nines. Any way you play it, Arcadia is a fantastic place and immaculately maintained.

steve

[Buck Wolter]

I'm not sure re-routed is the right terminology, re-numbered is probably better. No holes were changed just the order they are played.

[Brian_Sleeman]

I've heard great things about Forest Dunes, but as far as Bay Harbor goes, for the money they're looking for I can think of far better places.  I played all 27 there last fall and was left rather unimpressed after all the hype I'd heard.  

It's got some great holes to be sure, but overall it's basically what amounts to an extremely successful resort and a scenic place for the seasonal bigwig residents to play.  It's in great shape and the lake views are nice, the facility is top-notch and the surrounding towns are about as good as you get for places to stay and play, but for pure golf the course falls far short of Arcadia for me.

Kingsley is definitely the one to play.

[S. Huffstutler]

OK, Buck......you can pick that nit if you want, I guess. When I say that I took a different route to work, it doesn't neccesarily follow that I ripped up and relocated the road. I'll try to choose my words more carefully next time.

steve

[Ken Fry]

Interesting routing change.  I wonder if Warren Henderson had that idea as an option all along.

I read a thread on Arcadia Bluffs from a few years back where Warren Henderson spoke of a number of possible routings that were available.

The current routing was settled on to get the "returning 9's" flow of the course.

[Buck Wolter]

Steve-
It was a little nit picky I guess but for those unfamiliar with Arcadia calling it a rerouting may be a little confusing.

Ken  -
I remember that thread as well. They have a bunch of options with the number of holes that start and end around the clubhouse.

[S. Huffstutler]

Jonathon wrote:
"Once, Kingsley matures and has the years CDCC has had to settle, it to will be one of the greatest in the U.S.  I do feel that the Kingsley Club is deserving of a higher rating then Arcadia, but not having played Kingsley, this means nothing.  I make my judgements from what I see and read."

Interesting concept.......deciding a rating by what you read and by looking at a website. Since I only speak for myself and don't pimp Tom Doak or Mike Devries, I will come out and say that in my opinion, even though I am biased, Arcadia Bluffs is a much better course than Kingsley, although it must be said that Arcadia enjoys a far more scenic site than Kingsley does. Comparing either to Crystal Downs is unfair, CDCC is a classic and Arcadia and Kingsley are different in look and feel than CD. If you think that Kingsley will be the Crystal Downs of some distant millenia, what will Crystal Downs be? Maybe Whistling Straits will someday be the Arcadia of the 22nd century. Probably not, though.

Steve

[Jonathan McCord]

   We all have our opinions and thats what makes this site great.  By the way, I did not compare CDCC to Arcadia.  I do have just one question, why do you bring up Doak's name???  What does he have to do with anything!!!

[S. Huffstutler]

Jonathon: We are all indeed entitled to our opinions. In my opinion Doak and DeVries get a pass from just about everyone on this site while most other designers are subject to intense scrutiny. Kingsley and Crystal Downs are so dissimiliar (again, in my opinion) that to compare them is rediculous. Arcadia Bluffs is a public golf course that is compared only to high end private courses, never to other public tracks. It is a delightful mix of strategic and penal holes in an unbelievable setting. Kingsley is carved out of the inland woods and is nothing like either CD or AB.

Steve

[Nick_Christopher]

The differences and similarities among Crystal, Arcadia and Kingsley can be summarized through the following parallels

Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Pierce Brosnan

or:

Jackie Kennedy, Pam Anderson, Gwyneth Paltrow

respectively

[Jonathan McCord]

    Just got back from a day on "The Bluffs."  The golf was tremendous and the course was in good shape for so early in the year.  The changes that have been presented on this thread have really come in well.  The greens are still a little rough  where they softened some of the undulations but other then that, the course will be in good shape for the summer.

    The changes to the 13th turned out well.  The bunkering will be outstanding once the grass grows in.  They were also in the process of resodding the walls of the greenside bunkers on 10 and 11.  Once that is done the course should be free of any ground under repair.  So all in all, It should be another outstanding year for Arcadia Bluffs.

[RJ_Daley]

Having had the chance to experience CD, KC, and AB in a three day period, I agree that to compare them is wasted energy.  They are 3 very different courses.  

CD the classic, has generally smaller devilish greens, affecting the approach shots differently.  At CD, I think the tee shots are more finicky.  It is more the tactitians game than the other "big lot" courses at AB and KC.  There, one can bust the tee ball to a wider field of options off the tee, and play to bigger, yet very undulating greens.  

They all have some greens that border on being over the top.  CD has its 8th, 10th, 11th and 17th, and boomer 8th (though I don't see that one as over the top as much as wild and exciting)  

AB has its 5th, old 13th new 9th (reported to be softened).  KC has the 13th, 9th, 4th.  Those at the 2 new courses are modern, multi-tiered big scale design, more so than CDs size and false fronted, bag of tricks.

I don't know how a fellow can go wrong when in that area, if you only got to play one of them.  They are all a blast, IMHO.