Doonbeg and neighbours

[Ville Nurmi]

This was in Irish Independent 8.1.2003

Local tractors bunker top golf club

Locals who are driving tractors on a disputed right of way across an exclusive €25m golf course are set to clash with the GC in the High Court.
Doonbeg GC has begub court process against people crossing the fifth fairway on their way to a beach beside the course.
The CE said yesterday that over past two years a number of individuals had asserted that they had a right to drive tractors across the course.
He said"THose driving are tresspassing. They have no right to drive across the GCs land which is private property

...

Unfortunately we have been left with no alternative but to have the matter resolved in court"

However, SC of the Cahermore and Caherfeenick Action Group said yeasterday that the court action will be contested:"The practise of tractors going through the rigth of way on the land is a tradition that has gone on over generations where locals, including my father, collected seaweed and periwinkles from the shore."

I think this came up also in a thread about Old Head.

[Tim Weiman]

Vanurmi:

I am sorry to hear this report.

Prior to the construction of Doonbeg, locals in the area did cross private property to get to the beach. Not surprising. Mostly it involved the simple desire for people to go for a swim or just a walk on the beach. How much people took vehicles right to the beach for the purpose of collecting seaweed I really don’t know.

However, there was a long history of people bringing heavy equipment (mostly trucks) to essentially rape and pillage the property. This came in the form of people stealing sand, particularly in the area that has become the 1st green.

Tony Pender, the principal land owner, expressed frustration that he couldn’t stop people from doing this. Moreover, he noted that environmentalists, who were so outspoken about building a golf course at Doonbeg, never said a thing during the years of sand being removed and stolen from the property. I don’t recall Tony saying anything to me about the environmental aspect of removing seaweed from a beach, but this angle in itself would be interesting.

Apart from the biological aspect, I believe there is a social environmental impact from projects like Doonbeg or Old Head. In both cases, the property was actually private property, but for generations locals crossed and enjoyed the land. It became a source of real pleasure for modest people who didn’t have much else.

Go to The Old Head today and you will find a big iron gate that says “keep out” to locals and “welcome” to wealthy foreigners . It is a painful symbol of what is going wrong with golf in Ireland. The Doonbeg project echoes Old Head. Though the project does bring badly needed development, Doonbeg lacks the charm of a truly local Irish golf club. The public relations effort to portray it as such can’t match the warmth that people felt years ago visiting places like Ballybunion and Lahinch. Something is lost when, on balance, projects focus too much on serving overseas visitors who quickly come and go without spending any real time in the community. Inevitably, resentment grows.

I hope the parties involved are able to find accommodation that will allow visitors to enjoy the golf course and locals to enjoy the beach. Look down the road in Ballybunion and you will find that such accommodation was accomplished years ago. Both locals and visitors play the golf course and there is sufficient access to the beach for people to enjoy walking, swimming, surfing, fishing and horseback riding.

[Paul P]

Golf is changing in Ireland, but not everywhere. It's taking longer and longer to get around the likes of Mt Juliet and K Club because people are having to pay so much to get out on the course so they are going to milk every minute out there. These coursed were not built with Irish people in mind. The more coursed built, however, the more pressure there will be for these courses to change their ways. I can see the price coming down in the next few years.

And of Doonbeg, I think the club has made more of an effort to facilitate local people than Old Head did.  However, I think it's too expensive, although I know the operate a 15 min gap in tee times to allow for a comfortable round.

Anyway, I'm rambling...

[Tim Weiman]

Paul:

I am not intimately familiar with all aspects of the Doonbeg project, but over the course of four site visits did sense an awareness of the "Old Head" factor, i.e., the resentment that develops from simply catering to outsiders.

However, when you consider how much money was spent on Doonbeg, it makes pricing locals' access to the golf course difficult.

[Pual P]

Tim

I think that they have special rates for people from the area, for both green fees and membership, but I could be wrong. That's what I'm referring to. I hope the place is a big success, although I think expectations for the place were a little too high.

I went in around the course in Doonbeg to have a look when it was opened and there were no objections from anyone. This would not happen in Old Head. As it happens, a friend of mine went to Cork and planned to get engaged on the cliffs of Old Head, but they were turned away. If things do go wrong for O'Connor, he won't get much sympathy, I feel.

[Tim Weiman]

Paul:

There are at least two things needed for local accomodation:
goodwill and reasonable project economics. In the case of Old Head, every John O'Connor story I've heard suggests the first requirement is missing. With Doonbeg the problem may be that the cost of building the course and the associated facilities, prices the "product" out of range for most ordinary local people. It is fine to talk about "discounts", but the cost is probably not a discount by Irish standards.

Back to the environmental angle: I'm still wondering if environmentalists would approve to people taking vehicles down to the beach for the purpose of removing seaweed.

[Paul P]

Tim

I agree with you on that point, sure enough. I wonder how much Greg Norman costs. I suppose he also attracts a lot of money, so his name might be the payback.

On the issue of the seaweed, they have been taking it out of the sea there for hundreds of years. The area can be very rocky (the burren), so people used it to build up a fertile humus. I doubt there would be much objection. Cars on the beach might be a different story, however.

I wonder, if it ever gets off the ground, will Inch be a similarly high budget project.

[Bob_Huntley]

Ted Turner had a similar problem in Montana. After buying up a gazillion acres of land he decided to fence off and gate various access roads to hunting venues. The folks in Montana did not take lightly to this so they sabotaged the fences. I understand that Mr. Turner realized that there was a better way and access has been provided.

[RJ_Daley]

I always appreciate Tim's sensitivity and affinity for Irish golf. He seems to have his heart and mind always fixed on the Irish scene.

It sounds to me like the inevitable onslaught of Americanized golf standards and values will eventually overtake what is left of the traditional Irish view of the game.  Perhaps that is tied to the awakening of an Irish ecomomy and entreprenurial spirit that has shed those many years of repression and depression to find Ireland one of the more vibrant recent economic stories.  I guess the fall out is a loss of aspects of the charm and traditional values of a more accessible and common enjoyment of the simple pleasures of things like the seashore and linksland for recreation and communal enjoyment.  Wealth may win out and slowly close off the concept of a communal right of way and spirit of sharing the land for these purposes and pricing things at what a common man could afford.  

Tim, will the western links courses of Ireland become a sort of Celtic Monterey?  If so, how long do we have left to experience the traditional Irish golf experience, and where?  

I fully realise that some may characterise my thoughts as hyperbole and socialistic romanticizing an ideal concept that doesn't or never existed.  But, I have my dreams too, and seeing what has been described to me about Irish golf is one of them, hopefully in the not to distant future.

[john bernhardt]

Well said RJ. I do wonder if the Connemara's of the west will become the haven's which preserve a golfing way of life so special that it should not be lost.

[Tim Weiman]

Dick Daley,

Thanks.

You can still experience Irish golf, but most Americans really don’t. The biggest reason is that we go over with a schedule that has us quickly running from course to course, never stopping long enough to make relationships and discover the ways the Irish really do play a more enjoyable game than we do. The mistake we make is assuming that Irish golf is just the golf courses, as if the people don’t matter. As we run from course to course, we don’t realize what we are missing.

[Paul P]

You will always have traditional golf in Ireland, even if it's just because some of the west coast links courses are isolated. The change Irish golf is experiencing is the development of big money courses, but the traditional courses are still there.

Many on this board do not appreciate the American-style courses being developed here, but for us it's a different kind of golf to enjoy. Variety is the spice of life.  We'll always go back to the traditional courses for day in, day out play. The only thing to resent is the fees, but these are necessary as the new courses are expensive to build, usually on valuable estates.

There is a danger, however, that all the promising links land will be bought up by big money operations. It would be nice to see more Connemaras, Carnes, Rossapennas ... cropping up here and there. Tralees and Old Heads are a different story.

I was thinking only recently that the government should invest in a high quality course developed on links land and have it open to all at moderate fees.  There are no really good quality municipal courses in the country.

[Tom Doak]

When I lived in St. Andrews twenty years ago, Walter Woods used to periodically go down to the beach and the rocks and collect seaweed, which he would compost and use later for fertilizer.  I'm sure some environmentalist might object to that, but they're objecting to something that's been a way of life for a long time.

However, the question is whether the people in Doonbeg are just "normal traffic," or whether they're using the right of way to disrupt the course and protest something.

[Brian Phillips]

Tim,

Well said.

I remember playing Royal Aberdeen one day with two clients of an achitect friend of mine.  We had booked a fourball to play that day.  It was my job to entertain the clients before teeing off so I got them down to the course early.  I took them into the clubhouse to have a long lunch and a couple of pints!  Those of you that have played Royal Aberdeen know that you sit right behind the tee in the bar.

They loved it.

The tee time was delayed and was also double booked with a van load of Americans.  They had also booked in advance.  They turned up got changed and went outside to practice on the putting green.  

Apparently they had already played somewhere in the morning and were not happy about the delay.  Anyway, in the end our fourball was given the nod ahead of the American group which did NOT please them.  They made a big complaint but to no avail.  My motto of this tale is get to know the locals and let them get to know you and they will look after to you as well as become a friend. The Americans finished their round about five minutes after us and went straight into the minibus while we enjoyed another few pints of the black stuff with the locals!!

I am organising a trip to Ireland in July this year and I am trying to convince the other 3 that we should travel for 7-10 days and play very few courses just to soak up the atmosphere rather than go on a mad course collection.  I want to play 4  good courses and maybe the odd local course while travelling in between the classics.

Brian.

[Ville Nurmi]

TIm Weiman and Paul P:

Having stayed in Ireland for modest 4 months...

I`m also sensing that Irish golf is changing. It is also changing in my home country which is FInland. People are requiring better conditioning ala America.

It will of course lead to more expensive golf. And that I don`t like.

All the courses in Finland use to cost something at most around 4 million Euros to build. And now they are building a couple for 10 M euros a piece. I couldn`t see my self paying the green fees our friends in USA are playing.

Cheers,

Ville

[Tim Weiman]

vanurmi:

It is an example of the unfortunate influence Americans are having on golf. I wish Europeans (and perhaps the Australian's) were more confident keeping American influence at bay.

Tom Doak:

Seaweed has been used for fertilizer in Ireland for a long time. Apparently, there are regulations about who can use it and how much they can use. Whether the folks still using it in Doonbeg are acting outside of these regulations I don't know.

As for beach access, it might be that the golf course is the most natural way for locals to reach it. I recall it isn't real easy to get to the beach in the area north of the course, but honestly don't remember what the situation is to the south. If access isn't made easy, the club is bound to face problems with locals who resent how the mere existence of the golf course denies their right to simple pleasures like a walk on the beach.

In previous threads I pointed to the example of Ballybunion, where beach access is made easy right from the middle of town and from the Cashen River. Thus, golfers and non golfers are able to peacefully co-exist.

This issue needs to be addressed at the very beginning of a project, in my opinion.

[bodgeblack]

Using seaweed as fertilizer has reminded me of the absolutely bizarre practice I witnessed at the Portmarnock Hotel and Golf Links (Designed by Eby and Langer) where the Head Greenkeeper was deadly serious about using old fermenting Guinness on his greens!!! The bacteria in the ale was extremely good at breaking down the thatch that was plaguing many of his greens.

Anyone else have some good tales of fancifully golf course management? I am sure that seaweed and Guinness are just the tip of the iceberg.

cheers

jamie

[Paul P]

You can still get out on Carne, Enniscrone, Connemara, Strandhill, Headfort, Murvagh, Esker Hills, Mullingar, Portsalon, Arklow, Carlow, Mount Wolseley, Cruit Island, Nairn and Portnoo, Ceann Sibhill, .... for less than 50 euro during the summer. Some cheaper and for the whole day. These are all excellent courses, in my opinion. There are lots more examples too.

[A_Clay_Man]

I don't think the characterization that "american golfers" are ruining it as much as the capitalism involved. While never having been, Don't these courses choose to have these undesirable types for no other reason than money money money.....

[Paul P]

Many of the new courses opening are owned by Americans, Europeans, Nigerians... It is an investment opportunity that they are entitled to. The not only bring money to the owners, but also to the country, which is to be welcomed. There is plenty of room for both types of course - I just hope the big money doesn't grab all the best sites.