Tobacco Road: As fun as it gets...

[Brian_Gracely]

Golf does alot of different things for people, and different people enjoy different aspects of the game.  Maybe it's the thrill of a new course, the competition within your group, the chance to match your game against historical context, the mental challenge of thinking your way around a strategic course or just the element of being out with nature.  But one thing I think we often forget to completely embrace is the pure fun of certain types of shots and the fun of seeing what happens as a result of certain shots or holes.  

The weather in NC was nice enough today that a few GCA'ers decided to make a trip down to Tobacco Road.  Some of us had played the course before, and some were first-timers.  

The thing about Tobacco Road is that it elicits so many emotions from people, from awe to amazement to frustration to confusion to disbelief to excitement.  But today the overwhelming aspect of the round was "fun".  For all its faults, and Tobacco Road is not without its faults, the course just has a bunch of really fun shots.  Some of them are risk-reward, such as the carry over the quarries on #4, 11 and 18.  Some are skillfully challenging, such as the short approaches to #13, 14 and 16.  And some are just plain fun to walk up to the green and see how the ball bounced, rolled or settled after an approach that had you thinking about 10 different things.  

As a group we played respectable, had an eagle and a few birides and plenty of pars, but we also had a shank and some foozzles and skankers.  But at the end of the round, the thing that brought the most excitement for me was one of the first-timers claim that they had to laugh 4-5 times on the back nine because the shots were just so much fun.  

And that's what ultimately makes Tobacco Road great.  It's fun.  It's fun because it rewards great shots, but it's also fun because it tells you, "come on, let's see you hit that shot that you used to hit as a kid before you started thinking too much on the golf course".  

So if you're down in the area, make it a point to go play Tobacco Road.  Ignore its minor faults, and enjoy it for the fun it can be.  

[ed_getka]

I look forward to seeing it. It was cool last month talking to Baxter Spann of Black Mesa fame, and hear he was inspired in his work by what he saw at Tobacco Road.
    Who made the trip to TR?

[Scott_Burroughs]

but we also had a shank and some foozzles and skankers

and some horrid putting...

But yes, it was great fun, as usual.  Sean Arble made the trek
all the way from England to meet a mate of his (from England)
temporarily living in Raleigh.

Here are the few pics I took from today:

A tricky, running-away-from-you chip for Brian on #2:


Par 3 3rd:


The ideal tee shot lands here on the risk/reward par 5 4th:


Do you go straight at the green with the false front or play
safe to the right on par 4 5th?   Sean's friend Martin (aka
Remy) decided to play safe.


The clouds had lifted nicely for a few holes, once we hit
the reverse Redan-ish #8:


The true definition of leaving a putt on the wrong side of the
green on #15.  Dogleg right par 4 just from there!


Sean loves the South so much, he's trying his best to be a
redneck....  Snapping the daunting tee shot on #18:

[RJ_Daley]

Geez, the GCA patented 'ass shot', and this time our golfer isn't even following through on a shot, he's taking a picture!

I'm jealous on two counts.  You guys having such a fun day at one of my favorite fun golf courses, and Gracely getting to wear shorts.  I sure does look more enjoyable than longjohns and goolashes if you played herebouts.

Were any of the Stewarts or Joe Gay around?  And, is the old cabin still there at 14th?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Dick,

Joe Gay was there after our round ended.  And the cabin is there behind #14.


Brian mentioned first how #8 looked reverse-Redan-ish, and it
then reminded me of a reverse of #2 at Somerset Hills, with
the fairway before the green as green.  Anyone else see a similarity?


Obviously, I reversed the pic of S. Hills #2 above.

[PThomas]

great pictures -- although I can do without the "GCA - ass" picture unless we get some better looking asses to join GCA!

I can't wait to play it in September as part of a work trip....

Brian -- you comments about having fun are so cool...that's what we are supposed to be doing on a golf course, after all....holes with choice like the 5th...man I love those so much!

pt

[wsmorrison]

I played Tobacco Road on Monday with Craig Disher and Lloyd Cole.  We had a great time.  Lloyd closed me out early on our first round of the year.  There are generous landing areas for the most part but some demanding tee shots.  It takes some local knowledge to know the direction to come in from on pin positions.  The greens were very good and dictated shots back to the tee.  I found it to be a course where thinking your way around is in high demand; a bit of a lost art that is returning in a growing renaissance in modern design.  While I wasn't a fan of Bulls Bay, I really enjoyed Tobacco Road.  Thanks Scott B for the email!  I owe you a drink...or two.

We stayed in Pinehurst and also played Southern Pines (Ran made a brief appearance) and Pine Needles.  I especially liked Pine Needles; great routing and terrific greens.  What more can you ask for.  The balls were bounding down the firm and fast fairways and the greens were slightly denting--great maintenance meld.  When we were leaving for the next round at Southern Pines the caddie master was almost apologetic about the intentional conditions, I guess he thought we were typical visitors.  We mentioned how we loved the conditioning and that it was perfectly melded to the architecture and he welcomed our perspective.

[Craig Disher]

r-man, I didn't see a smiley behind your last comment. Do you honestly believe MP is the superior course? I can't speak for the pre-restoration PN, but having played both within the past 3 months, I found PN a far better course. (Since it costs about $40 more, someone must agree ). Taking cost out of the equation, I even prefer Southern Pines to MP. The topography is so-so and there are too many forgettable holes.

The putting surfaces at PN are just superb. I told Wayne that I thought the grass was the same as that used at PH#2 - I stand corrected - but for a course that has been open for only a few months, they are terrific. The surrounds are less dramatic than PH#2 but I had the feeling that they were closer to what Ross intended at #2.

As an aside, I believe hole #2 at PN was actually Ross's intended #1 - and the current #1 was actually Ross's #18.

Flynn's connection to Tobacco Road? - I think it might be the only property that he felt he couldn't build a course on.

[A.G._Crockett]

These are great pictures, Brian.  Anybody who looks at these should be dying to get on Tobacco Rd.; if not, they have no soul!

[Brian_Gracely]

Since Barney's Blog is dead, I guess I'll have to post the "Shot of the Week" here instead.  

Honorable Mention:
1) Sean Arble's birdie on #14, to a mid-back pin, with the wind blow into us and towards the pond.  
2) For the first time in 20+ tries, I finally landed an approach on the green on #13 and made par.
3) Scott B reaching #4 in two and making the eagle putt.

But for the shot of the week, we have a tie:

1) #11, Scott's got about 215yds to the green.  After some "encouragement" by his playing partners, he decides to go for it.  He pulls the Perfect Club, gives his best Peter Kessler "trust me, it's perfect", and proceeds to high a perfectly high fade from a downhill lie to the back of the green.

1a) Sean's got 230+ (uphill) to #9 green and Scott and I tell him that he just feeds to hit a nice high fade up there as everything will feed to the hole.  Sean replies, "I'm not Jack Nicklaus!".  He then proceeds to nut a 3w/5w (with the previous group walking off the green..he didn't think he had the shot) to the back of the green.  To which Scott and I replied, "yeah, I'm not Jack Nicklaus".  

[Mike Hendren]

Brian,

Good stuff.  Will Tobacco Road be included in Dixie Cup II?

Mike

[Brian_Gracely]

Scott,

I talked to Joe Gay (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/interviewgay.html) before I left and about half-way through me asking him if they ever considered a Par3 after #12, he interrupted me mid-sentence and finished the thought.  He said that he's thought about it several times and mentions it to the owners on about a monthly basis.  He said he's not a big fan of #17 and that the routing would be alot better if that hole got built.  Just standing on #13 tee, you can see that the hole is just sitting there waiting for it to be built.  But he said that they'd never built it without Mike Strantz being involved, and that's not something that Mike could probably tackle right now.  So pray for Mike's recovery and we might get two good things for the price of one.  

One last thing, Joe said that they never put a pin to the far-far right on #17 and he has no idea why that area was made into green.  The one thing you can tell from talking with Joe is that he (and hopefully TR ownership) has no intentions of making changes to the course without Mike's fully blessing and involvement.

[Ken_Cotner]

I thought Pine Needles' original routing had current #18 as #1.  No?

Very nice post and photos on TR -- it is fun, and certainly seems to result in polarized opinions!

Ken, who should be on about #8 tee at PN right now, but had to decline because of yardwork...  

[Brian_Gracely]

Brian,

Good stuff.  Will Tobacco Road be included in Dixie Cup II?

Mike

I'd say it's 99% sure that it will be included.  I need to get back with Ran to see if he's made any progress on finalizing a date.  He was working with the Bell family because he wants to make sure Pine Needles is included as well, and he was working some logistics around John Fought being present, as well as the Mid-Pines Hickory Tournament and some GW rater event in Atlantic City.  

My onw concern with Tobacco Road is if we don't allow people to play it twice.  It wouldn't be an issue for anyone that's been there before, but I've found that newcomers really need to see it more than once to allow the "can I carry that area" to stop being such a thought and allow the strategy, challenges and fun to be on their mind.  

How about something like this?
Friday (optional, as guys arrive) - Tobacco Road or Southern Pines
Saturday - Pine Needles & Mid Pines (assuming daylight)
Sunday - Tobacco Road

That would give guys two shots at seeing TR, plus the pins should be completely different on those days.

[mikes1160]

"I talked to Joe Gay (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/interviewgay.html) before I left and about half-way through me asking him if they ever considered a Par3 after #12, he interrupted me mid-sentence and finished the thought.  He said that he's thought about it several times and mentions it to the owners on about a monthly basis.  He said he's not a big fan of #17 and that the routing would be alot better if that hole got built.  Just standing on #13 tee, you can see that the hole is just sitting there waiting for it to be built."

Brian,

Maybe I'm missing something, but if #13 turns into a par 3, what does that do to the remainder of the routing? Does #13, a par 5 at present, become a par 4 #14, #14, the par 3, becomes #15, etc., with #17 eliminated altogether?

[Brian_Gracely]

Mike,

If the change happened, the holes would look like this:

#12 stays the same.

(New Hole) - From Around #12 green (new #13 tee) up towards where the existing #13 tee is about 200 yds.  This would be a Par3, "new #13".

#13 becomes #14 (unchanged)
#14 becomes #15 (unchanged)
#15 becomes #16 (unchanged)
#16 becomes #17 (unchanged) - and the walk up to #17 tee, down to the green and back up to #18 tee is eliminated, as it's a pacing bottleneck.
#17 is no longer used.....or maybe it becomes a #19 for settling bets on the drive out.
#18 stays the same

So the benefits would be (1) a longer, uphill Par3 to better compliment the current shorter or downhill Par3s, (2) Shorter walk after #12, (3) shorter walk and better pacing after #16.

BUT, this is all hypothetical if Mike Strantz could not be involved....which is the right way for Tobacco Road to think about things.  Or Mike might just think it's a bad idea and tell all of us armchair architectures where to hit our shanks.

[Pete Buczkowski]

Brian and all,

Thanks for sharing your day at Tobacco Road.  It really is about the most fun course you can play.  When I returned to Raleigh for a weekend last summer, TR was the only course I played.  That's quite an endorsement.  Dixie Cup II will be a must-attend event -- I am really looking forward to it.

Regards,
Pete

[Scott_Burroughs]

These are great pictures, Brian.

You're welcome.  


A little clarification on the shots of the day Brian listed
above.  My Perfect Club on #11 was from 200, though quite
uphill, hit the back of the green, and bounded over by 10
yards.  Brian had about 180 and hit a 4-iron to the back of
the green and stayed there.  The putting on that hole for
both of us was not nearly as pretty, though.  

With Dixie Cup II being drivable for the middle Atlantic folks,
we could get a good turnout!

[Jason Tetterton]

Are the dates set for the Dixie?

[Brian_Gracely]

Are the dates set for the Dixie?

Not yet.  I expect it will be sometime in the last two weeks of October or early November.  We really don't want to cross-over daylight savings.  Hope to hear back from Ran this week.

[Bill_McBride]

Brian, agreed re day light savings time.  At Cusowilla we just had the course there to play.  At Pinehurst we'll have virtually unlimited choices.  I like your idea of playing Tobacco Road twice and agree with that Friday/Sunday schedule.  I'd also like to play Southern Dunes and may try to stay Monday for that.

[A.G._Crockett]

These are great pictures, Brian.

You're welcome.  

Oops!  Sorry, Scott.

[Brad Tufts]

I actually played at TR on the 24th.  I loved the course, so much fun.  It was interesting to hear the reactions of the others on my former college team (the uninitiated in terms of architectural knowledge).  Many said they could not play it every day, and one called it "The Pit on steroids."  I was thinking, it would be fun to play every day due to the amazing green contours and sheer size, and also that even though the Pit came first, TR is obviously good enough for the Pit to be called a severely dulled-down TR.

-Brad

[SPNC_Chris]

Was going to play TR for the first time last week, but my buddy working on the tee times told me that TR (and Talamore too) were already over $100. The darn US Open publicity is making the season start even earlier this year. I live in Southern Pines, so I can wait until it gets hot and they lower fees again. I ended up playing at Little River on Thursday and my home course, Southern Pines, on Friday.


I'll get to TR one of these days...

[Brian_Gracely]

Chris (or others that live in the area),

Go to the TR website and sign-up to get their mailing updates.  They are always sending out coupons and discounts.  We played for $49 the other day.