Art and golf architecture

[T_MacWood]

Which architects past and present are the most artistic?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom Simpson

[Brad Klein]

Nobody comes close to Mike Strantz, who was trained as an illustrator and worked for a few years as a commercial artist. His design work shows it.

[Tom_Doak]

I would agree those two are the most talented at other forms of art.  Is that the same thing as "most artistic"?

[Kyle Harris]

If sticking to golf architecture, how about Desmond Muirhead? (Stone Harbor CC, et al.)

[T_MacWood]

"I would agree those two are the most talented at other forms of art. 

Is that the same thing as 'most artistic'?"

Not necessarily.

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

What is your definition of "most artistic" as used in your question?  On paper?  On the ground?  In the mind?

[T_MacWood]

Wayne
It could be any of those things...including artistically inclined or influenced by art theory or other artistic mediums.

[wsmorrison]

Then I guess it is a matter of taste as is most things artistic.  There are different schools of artistry.  I prefer the natural school of golf architecture.  This subset can be looked at in two ways--immediate natural look and an evolutionary natural look.

The day Mackenzie finished Cypress Point it looked mature, having an immediate natural look.

The day Flynn's crew stopped work at Shinnecock Hills was not the final effect Flynn was looking for.  He designed and built in an evolutionary sense.  The effects of nature--growth and erosion would finish the job.

With today's modern equipment and skillful designers and shapers, the mature look can be immediately created.  The teams of Doak, Hanse, Coore and Crenshaw and others are wonderful at the various techniques that accomplish this.

[A_Clay_Man]

If one defines art as... the sum of the parts is greater than the whole, I think Jack Neville deserves some mention.

While the beacknine at Pacific Grove is located in a wonderful spot, the golf created, clearly fills the bill for the above definition.

Also,

His commissioning the 14th green at PB, from another form of artiste', also shows a certain spirit. Sharing the credit, working as an amatuer, also exhibits a special form of an unselfish act.

The fact that there was 41 odd years between Pebble Beach and Pg's backnine shows a lifelong devotion to the art.

 

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Without a doubt Robert von Hagge.  Having seen original oils and sketches I have not seen any other work by the aforementioned people that really compare in quality.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Our friend, Neal Meagher, is an excellent sketch artist as well. You can find some of his stuff at www.nealmeaghergolf.com

Neal was kind enough to lend a sketch for my web site. And he's also at work on a series of drawings for a book I'm currently writing.

[wsmorrison]

I've seen a number of Ron Prichard's bunker drawings; they are beautiful and show a great sense of perspective and drawing skill.  

I once asked Ron what would be the first thing he'd suggest to someone wanting to become a golf architect.  His answer, learn how to draw.

[Jonathan Davison]

How many modern day architects still rely on hand drawn plans & sketches. It looks like it is dominated by computer
graphics and auto cad details?

[Brian Phillips]

At our Aberdeen office we have an artist employed on the books to sketch our ideas.  

I don't think anyone comes close to what he does.  Linda Hartough is probably the only one who is better but she does it from finished holes our guy does it before the hole is started.

Brian

[Mike Nuzzo]

At our Aberdeen office we have an artist employed on the books to sketch our ideas.  

Brian

Brian,
Buzz -
Farming it out doesn't count...
 

Kelly -
I've seen Robert's sketches, but didn't know of his painting prowess.  Are there any works hanging in thier office?

Cheers

[wsmorrison]

"How many modern day architects still rely on hand drawn plans & sketches. It looks like it is dominated by computer
graphics and auto cad details? "

Johnny,

Ron's pencil drawings are sketched by hand and are as good as many artists I've seen come out of the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts.

[Mike Nuzzo]

"How many modern day architects still rely on hand drawn plans & sketches. It looks like it is dominated by computer
graphics and auto cad details? "

Ron's pencil drawings are sketched by hand and are as good as many artists I've seen come out of the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts.

Wayne,
I thought Ron also used an outside source - at least he does at times.

Jonny,
Quite a few still do it by hand.
And if they do say they use Autocad, they often still draw by hand and then digitize.  That gives me a headache just thinking about the process.

Cheers

[Tommy_Naccarato]

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Mike,

Its been 11 years since I've been in their offices, so I am not certain if anything has been hung there. I was thinking of what I saw at his home.

[George Pazin]

Great pic, Tommy.

I love Gil's drawings in Geoff's book, and I love the drawings of Don Placek from Renaissance Golf. I'd bet a good bit that each has done some interesting artwork separate from their golf related drawings. And Gil is certainly an artist when it comes to designing and building courses.

I remember once a good while ago that Golf Digest ran a piece on drawings done by various people within golf - I think they were auctioned off for charity. Ben had a really nice drawing, Tom Fazio's was pretty good, and Steve Elkington's was excellent.

Ian Andrew has an excellent eye, as evinced in the photos he's posted - I'd bet he can draw well as well.

I don't know why this sticks in my head, but I feel like Jeremy Glenn posted something on here that showed some real artistic talent. Maybe it was a routing or something like that.

[Jonathan Davison]

Brian
I would be interested in seeing some of the illustrations if possible, coming from an illustration & design background I think it can be such a useful tool to have.
Working on my final design project for the EIGCA diploma course has given me a great opportunity to sketch & illustrate golf holes within a proposed site.
From my sketches in the field I can then produce detailed designs, hopefully knowing that my details follow my sketch.

[Brian Phillips]

Jonny,

Are you going to the conference?  I am also staying an extra week after the conference in Edinburgh if you want to meet up, if you guys are there.

Brian

[TEPaul]

"Wayne
It could be any of those things...including artistically inclined or influenced by art theory or other artistic mediums."

Wayne:

In my opinion, this kind of general question on Tom MacWood's part, is just another weak and peripheral attempt on his part to reestablish his point that the Arts and Crafts Movement had such a powerful effect on golf course architecture before, in and around the "Golden Age of Golf Architecture" that it should be remamed "Arts and Crafts golf architecture" and that Horace Hutchinson should be rightfully hoisted on a pedastal as the "Father of the ART of golf course architecture".

No matter how many different ways he tries to come at that conclusion, it just ain't the case and no amount of revisionist history reinterpreting on his part is going to make it so!    

[T_MacWood]

Robert Trent Jones was a very talented artist, by all acounts Pete Dye can't draw at all. But if you compare courses like The Golf Club, Casa de Campo and Harbour Town to Firestone, Dorado Beach and Palmetto Dunes which man appears to have more artistic flair?

TE
You seem to be obsessed with the Arts and Crafts movement....don't let it get under your skin.