[Mark Brown]

Mid-Ocean 5
Cuscowilla 10
Cypress 17
Mountain Lake #?help
Yeaman's Hall #?
Bay Hill #6(?)
Black Diamond Quarry 9 & 14
Secession #1

[Jimmy Muratt]

One of my favorite Cape holes is the 16th at Kinloch.  From the back tees and taking an aggressive line, it is a 267 yard carry to carry the water and reach the fairway.  

[Doug Wright]

Mark,

Although the term "cape" hole often carries the connotation you suggest, holes like Mid Ocean 5 and Cuscowilla 10 are not true "cape" holes. See the first Feature Interview with George Bahto for the correct definition.

Best,

[blasbe1]

Mark,

Although the term "cape" hole often carries the connotation you suggest, holes like Mid Ocean 5 and Cuscowilla 10 are not true "cape" holes. See the first Feature Interview with George Bahto for the correct definition

Mark:

Turns out that while what Doug says may be "technically" correct, it's either a little high handed or just plain lazy for him to give you the GB reference and not just put it out there in his own words (yes, Doug, that would be a direct challenge, what's your most mis-used GCA term?).  A "Cape" hole like 10 at Cuscowilla is not really a "Cape" hole b/c while the tee shot is off set and rewards a "bite off what you can chew" target line, a true "Cape" hole requires hazards on at least three sides of the green.  The tee shot on a "Cape" hole can therefore have little risk reward element and yet the second shot can be to a green that shoots out into the water, or a massive bunker and, if three sides of the green are a "hazard," you more or less have a "Cape" hole.  

I imagine that if the 10th green at Cuscowilla were perched out into the lake with water in front, back and on the right side, 10 at Cuscowilla would be one of the greatest "Cape" holes ever!  

I think C&C named the five par 5th at the Plantation Course "Cape" and most would think it's b.c of the tee shot, but the green actually sits in a swale with hazard from front right to back middle left of the green.

In fact, if one considers the big ugly house behind the back of 10 green at Pebble a hazard (AS ALL SHOULD) that's definitely a "Cape" hole!!

Just goes to show you never know what passes for a hazard nowadays!!!      

[Bill Weber]

IMO the most exciting, scenic, difficult, and thrilling for the first time and thereafter as well is the 1st at Machrihanish. Allowing for the fact that it's the first shot of any kind of the day, unless you've wasted a few into the water, I have never played a better opening hole as well as Cape Hole.

[Kyle Harris]

18 at Huntingdon Valley... just cut down the trees

[blasbe1]

18 at Huntingdon Valley... just cut down the trees

That hole has killed me because I've always bailed out and pulled it left off the tee and them find myself punching out of the trees for an uphill blind third.  

Great hole.

[TEPaul]

The very best cape hole I've ever seen is unfortunately only on paper but I can clearly see how it would've been on the ground. As for risk/reward one cannot help but see on the ground were it would've been and it would've been completely AWESOME. It's a 14th hole iteration at PVGC that was never built (obviously!). The thing I really like about it was it would've been quite a bit downhill and downhill tee shots make the golfer feel strong (tempting). Looks like the high risk carry over water to the front of the green could've been about 240 yards. Going around to the left would've made the hole around 300 yards.

[Kyle Harris]

Tom Paul,

Any way you can elaborate? Where would it have gone?

[TEPaul]

It would've been from around the present 14th tee to a green sitting against the water at the front of the fairway of #15. The carry directly at it would've been entirely over water. The safe option was to hit the ball to a left to right canting fairway which would've been where the "nature walk" now is from the present 15th tee to the 15th fairway. From there you'd have a short approach slightly downhill to a green with water right and behind!

I have no idea where the idea for this iteration came from--whether it was Crump, Macdonald, perhaps Travis, Wilson, whatever. I don't know about Colt---I'd doubt it would've been him because I'm not even sure if he ever saw NGLA's famous original #14 cape hole and the iteration is well away from where he'd gotten to on that second topo and seems to be well after he'd left America for good.

The interesting thing is old aerials actually show the fairway area on this cape cleared by Crump so he could apparently look at this possible iteration. Why didn't he do it? It's hard to say but the most logical thing I can think of is this would've shortened #15 by about 150 yards and he had to get a par 5 out of #15, as he only had one hole to go (since #16 was built and in play). And we do know Crump wanted two par 5s at PV that were completely unreachable in two shots.

This could also explain why he was still so undecided about what exactly to do with #15 when he died (Carr said it was the last thing he mentioned to him before he died). It could also explain why even at the time Crump died he was still entertaining the idea of making #16 his second par 5---something he had on an iteration before Colt ever arrived in 1913.

[Anthony_Nysse]

#6 at Friar's Head is very good.....

[Mike Hendren]

Under the definition supported by George Bahto, wouldn't the 17th at Congressional rank highly?  Or must the fairway angle off the same body of water?

Mike

[TEPaul]

Anthony:

Did you know that was apparently the first hole they say they found there--they say it was so obvious you couldn't miss it!

[Anthony_Nysse]

TEPaul,
  I remember hearing that when I was there. I think that it is really a great hole and just sits above that valley so well...great hole

[TEPaul]

Seems like "cape" holes have a couple of definitions---one with a high risk carry to a green and one with a carry to a big long diagonal fairway generally bordered by water like Mid Ocean's.

I always look to NGLA's original cape hole as the best and most interesting prototype. But one has to wonder about C.B's basic conceptualizing on that hole. In other words, what the hell was C.B's ideas on ultimate temptation with that concept design of NGLA's original cape hole with the green sticking out in the water? One would think he would've set the hole up where some big strong fool would be actually tempted to drive the ball directly at the green over water.

But apparently the thought of that totally pissed off C.B. His braggadioso grandson or something kept kidding C.B.he could drive that green. He even bet C.B. he could which made C.B furious! So the kid goes out there and does it and C.B got so pissed off he refused to pay the kid and disinherited him!  

And then eventually C.B changes the green in favor of a road to the new clubhouse and one of the neatest prototype "cape" holes goes down the tubes!

I guess the moral of that story is it was never a good idea to piss off C.B Macdonald! Some joker pissed off C.B over in the bar at Shinnecock and C.B got so pissed off he pummelled the little twerp to within and inch of his life. They threw C.B out of Shinnecock for that or at least suspended him for it and C.B got pissed again and stole Shinnecock's chef and their flagpole on his way out and took them over to NGLA next door.

Why the hell don't they make characters like C.B anymore?

[Donnie Beck]

I have always like the 10th? I think it is at Maidstone.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark Brown,

Heresy, The 6th at Trump National in West Palm Beach.

[Jeff Fortson]

One would be#13 at Riviera if they ever removed the trees on the left and restored the baranca as it was originally.


Jeff F.

[james soper]

#14-old memorial

[TEPaul]

That one is straight-away Donnie. You're probably thinking of the 7th at Maidstone a true cape hole!!

Did you know that Willie Park jr made a good deal of that hole from fill that he created by lowering the entire grade by about 10 feet on the entire fairway on what is now the great 9th hole?

Juan Trippe asked Willie how in the world he came up with such a brilliant and sophisticated idea and apparently Willie Jr said;

Mr Trippe, the philosophy sort of came to me subliminally last night through Horace Hutchinson, someone called Morris and Rushkin and the headmaster of some English boarding school. They said it was this movement which would make all our architecture natural and regional and I think they called it the "D&C Movement", or maybe it was the "A&C Movement" whatever the bloody hell that is."

[Jeff Fortson]

Just thought of a good one...

#10 at The Creek

It's a reverse cape (left-to-right).


Jeff F.

[Donnie Beck]

Tom,

Thank you.. I couldn't remember the number off the top of my head.

[TEPaul]

"#10 at The Creek
It's a reverse cape (left-to-right)."

JeffF:

What? Are you left-handed or something?  

I don't subscribe to this reverse stuff in golf holes---this idea that there's a redan and a reverse redan---what some call a Nader.

A rose is a rose is a rose!

A redan is a redan is a redan!

A cape is a cape is a cape?

Tom MacWood lives in an idiotic Ivory Tower in Ohio, Tom MacWood lives in an idiotic Ivory Tower in Ohio, Tom MacWood lives in an idiotic Ivory Tower in Ohio!

There's no sense at all in mincing words or complicating things that just aren't complicated!  

[peter_p]

#13 at The Dunes in Myrtle Beach. Probably renumbered thanks to Rees, this is the endless dogleg right around Lake Singleton.

[A_Clay_Man]

Pete Dye has made a few orifices pucker, with his use of them. Even on Par 3's.  Riverdale-Dunes had one of the most intimidating two-shotters, not so much just because of the water, but because to miss too far right looked worse than taking a penalty drop for hitting it into the water.

Victoria National's home cape hole, put a real smile on my face when we walked up to it. I thought it well placed and I actually let my host lose to me (just on that hole).

For full disclosure. I humbly confess to having violated at least three guidlines during that one visit to VN. I apologize if my behavior was appauling.

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