most polarizing courses????

[PThomas]

all that talk about May River got me wondering:  which courses do you think generate the widest differences of opinions on how good they are..i.e., courses which many feel are very good/great, and many feel are not that good?  

maybe there are no such courses???

Spyglass may be one, based on a recent thread

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tobacco Road seems to bring out strong feelings on both sides.  I played with 12 others and it was quite a lively discussion that night. Some loved it, some hated it.

[PThomas]

I look forward to playing TR is Sept; the pictures of it are wild

[Craig Van Egmond]

TR is wild.  I'd play it again in a heart beat. I don't know if I'd want to play it everyday though.  

Maybe PGA West Stadium. Pros hate it, hackers seek it out.

[Zack Kelly]

I would have to agree with the TR comment I've never played there but have heard two very different thoughts on it either people love it or they hate it.  Not a lot of people imbetween

[Mark Brown]

I love Tobacco Road. You have to go there with a mind set that it's quirky like the links across the Pond.

Just about any course that Pete Dye designs polarizes golfers

[Jay Cox]

You have to go there with a mind set that it's quirky like the links across the Pond.

In the vein of quirky links across the pond...how about Cruden Bay or St. Enodoc?  Cruden in particular seems to generate widely divergent reactions.

Still, I think TOC is probably the best answer.

[PThomas]

Mark -- I can't wait to play T Road...I love quirky courses, which is why I also can't wait to play Cruden bay someday

re Peter Dye, when I think of his courses, "difficult" is the word that first comes to my mind!

[JohnV]

I've heard a number of disparaging comments about Pinehurst #2.  A lot of people who don't understand are underwhelmed by it.

[Evan Fleisher]

You have to go there with a mind set that it's quirky like the links across the Pond.

In the vein of quirky links across the pond...how about Cruden Bay or St. Enodoc?  Cruden in particular seems to generate widely divergent reactions.

Still, I think TOC is probably the best answer.

I would have to slightly disagree about Cruden Bay.  For the most part, those seeking out such a course while in Scotland (i.e., not one of the "trophy rounds") are probably already of a certain mindset about what to expect, and I have personally never run into someone who had played there and had anything negative to say about the place.

TR on the other hand has elecited many differing opinions, and I was part of the group that Craig spoke of above and we had our share of differences for sure...even among seemingly like-minded architecture afficionados.

[THuckaby2]

Evan:

You obviously haven't spoken to Rich Goodale enough.  He didn't have much positive to say about Cruden Bay.  But of course, he rarely has anything good to say about ANY course outside of those he calls home, so take this with the ocean of salt it deserves.

BTW, what about Troon?  That seems to cause some disagreement.  

[Andy Hughes]

I would have to agree with the TR comment I've never played there but have heard two very different thoughts on it either people love it or they hate it.  Not a lot of people imbetween

Zack
Its easy, the smart, discriminating people love Tobacco Road and appreciate all its many fine qualities, and then there's everyone else  

[Evan Fleisher]

Evan:

You obviously haven't spoken to Rich Goodale enough.  He didn't have much positive to say about Cruden Bay.  But of course, he rarely has anything good to say about ANY course outside of those he calls home, so take this with the ocean of salt it deserves.

BTW, what about Troon?  That seems to cause some disagreement.  

What are you talking about...I LOVED TROON!!! Ha!

[THuckaby2]

E - of course you did.  That Mr. Huntley, he's some curmudgeon to dislike the course so.  I mean please, who else in his right mind could not find much to like about a great Open venue like that?

TH

ps - inside joke is I hated the place first time around (1987), got in good disagreement with Evan here about it.  I did come to respect it far more after a 2002 return visit.

[Evan Fleisher]

E - of course you did.  That Mr. Huntley, he's some curmudgeon to dislike the course so.  I mean please, who else in his right mind could not find much to like about a great Open venue like that?

TH

ps - inside joke is I hated the place first time around (1987), got in good disagreement with Evan here about it.  I did come to respect it far more after a 2002 return visit.

See...I knew you'd see the error in your ways.  Now we've just gotta set you straight regarding CGC and we'll be all set.

[THuckaby2]

Re Troon, well... heck one ought to live and learn.  I still think it's among the lesser courses I've played in Scotland, I just no longer would call it a boring slog of a course.  It does have many redeeming qualities.  

Now correcting the error of my ways re CGC would require one of three things:

a) a time machine, so I could go back and avoid the pricks I met there back in 1986;

b) a greater ability to see past prickly treatment by prickish people;

or

c) a chance to see the course again.

I'm not holding my breath for either a or c, though I'd say c has a greater chance of happening in my lifetime.   As for b, I am gaining on that.  I no longer hate or revile or loathe the place; I've come to grudging acceptance that it must be a fine golf course and club and I just caught it on a bad day.

TH

[Evan Fleisher]

Re Troon, well... heck one ought to live and learn.  I still think it's among the lesser courses I've played in Scotland, I just no longer would call it a boring slog of a course.  It does have many redeeming qualities.  

Now correcting the error of my ways re CGC would require one of three things:

a) a time machine, so I could go back and avoid the pricks I met there back in 1986;

b) a greater ability to see past prickly treatment by prickish people;

or

c) a chance to see the course again.

I'm not holding my breath for either a or c, though I'd say c has a greater chance of happening in my lifetime.   As for b, I am gaining on that.  I no longer hate or revile or loathe the place; I've come to grudging acceptance that it must be a fine golf course and club and I just caught it on a bad day.

TH

I knew that would be your response...just yanking your chain a bit.  On a more serious note however, regarding your comments on Troon...there was another thread here recently on the topic of "is once enough" to form opinions about places.

My answer on that thread was an analogy of seeing Pulp Fiction in different frames of mind...really disliking it the first time, then really coming to enjoy it on subsequent viewings.  I think the same holds true for many of the golf venues we play...once is not always enough and we owe it to ourselves as part of our maturation (from a golf architecture understanding viewpoint), acceptance, development of "the eye", whatever else to see the places we have doubts about more than once to either confirm or deny those not-so-positive thoughts before making a more definiteive judgement.

[THuckaby2]

E - Just a couple things:

1.  All too often, once is all we have, so we make do; and

2. So positive one-time impressions are ok, but negative ones aren't?

Maturation indeed.  The "eye".  I'm getting ill... either that or I feel like I've been scolded by my mother.  

 

[Evan Fleisher]

E - Just a couple things:

1.  All too often, once is all we have, so we make do; and

2. So positive one-time impressions are ok, but negative ones aren't?

Maturation indeed.  The "eye".  I'm getting ill... either that or I feel like I've been scolded by my mother.  

 

1. Agreed...if that's all we get, we form our impressions from there and take it or leave it...happens all to often I'm afraid (as you well know)

2. No, not at all!  Solid positive impressions should be challenged as well...maybe my next time around Troon will show me things that are not what they appeared to be back in 1998 as an example.  I guess that my point was that sometimes it is better to re-investigate the negatives moreso than the positives just to confirm or deny those initial feelings...I did not mean to say that we should not do the same for positives as well.

As for scolding here goes..."make sure to wear clean underwear before you leave the house...you never know when you're gonna have to drop trow and get your behind kissed by a wild Armenian!"  

[THuckaby2]

No hassles, E.  Just wanted to get that straight.  And good advice also at the end.

 

[Tom_Doak]

Among top-25 courses, the two which have the most naysayers are Pinehurst No. 2 and Seminole ... some people just don't "get" them.  Less so now than when they had Bermuda greens.

Secession is one that comes to mind also.

[John_Cullum]

Among top-25 courses, the two which have the most naysayers are Pinehurst No. 2 and Seminole ... some people just don't "get" them.  Less so now than when they had Bermuda greens.

Tom D

What is Seminole using on their greens? Back in October it certainly looked like bermuda.

[Joel_Stewart]

The question is why are courses so polarizing.  I've sent knowledeable people to certain courses that I liked and they didn't agree.  

The main reason I have found is degree of difficulty.  As an example, I really liked Whisper Rock (with its flaws) but others didn't like it because its hard.

I've taken some guests to a Jack Nicklaus course in Santa Rosa, CA called Mayacama.  I think its just OK but others loved it.    

[James Edwards]

I see Pebble has its fair share or air time on this site regarding how good it's architecture is in direct relationship to its setting.. Then you have its more famous, beautiful neighbour which draws in many peoples eyes, an unfair comparison which is undoubtedly the No.1 place to visit (IMHO) if you wish to see just one more golf course and have the choice...

[Jason Topp]

Turnberry - from best in Scotland to way overrated

Pebble Beach - same, only US

How about TPC Sawgrass?

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