Royal Adelaide GC

[David_Tepper]

The Golf Channel here in the US is showing the Nationwide Tour event (Jacobs Creek Open) from Royal Adelaide on TV this weekend. Any feedback from our friends Down Under regarding the course? What are the best holes, features, etc.?  

[Mike_Clayton]

David

It's a MacKenzie redesign from his trip in 1926.They implemented some of his suggestions but not all which was a pity.His routing changes looked terrific.
One hole went from the 10th tee to the 11th green which could have been spectacular.
The best holes include the short par four third up and over a saddled fairway (at about 180 off the tee) to long thin green.It is drivable but very dangerous.
6 is a wonderful par four up to a green and 7 a good short 3.
14 is the best hole on the course - a long dogleg right with beautiful looking bunkers into the inside corner of the dogleg.
It's a small green considering how long the second can be.
16 is a really difficult little 3 - 160 about - with a tabletop green that will be really hard to hit on Sunday afternoon when players come there with a chance to win.

[tonyt]

Mike has written a few good brief reviews of some top Australian courses, including Royal Adelaide, at

www.iseekgolf.com/coursereviews

[James Bennett]

A report on MacKenzie's visit to RA was published in the Australian Golf Course Architect's Journal. Its on their web-site.  Interesting to see the turmoil proposed changes caused amonst the members 80 years ago.  Funny thing history, things don't change much.

http://www.sagca.org.au/journal2000/mackenzie.html

[David_Tepper]

Mike, Tony & James

Thanks very much for your replies. Exactly what I was looking for.

DT  

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

This was one of the most pleasant surprises of my trip to Australia in November. The course is clearly celebrated, but it was also one that had drawn a lot of mixed reviews. The conditions were among the best I saw last year and I thought the holes on the other side of the tracks were great, while the closing holes were better than I had anticipated.

Some photos from my round.


The third hole, which really does not do this great hole justice.




The tee shot, followed by the approach to the fourth.


The tricky seventh, from the front right of the green.


The great setting of the 11th green.


The approach to the tough 14th.


The treacherous bunkers on 16.

[David_Tepper]

Ben-

GREAT pix!!! Thanks.

DT

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Thanks David,
I do have shots of the entire course, so let me know if you want them.

Too bad such a great course at RA cannot generate more interest on the board - perhaps you should have put OT in front of it.  

[Mike_Clayton]

Ben

If you can believe it - l was at RA a couple of months ago and there was talk of moving the 11th green out of the 'crater' and taking it left.
Something about the poor surface on the green!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Great photos - good to read about it, too.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Ben

If you can believe it - l was at RA a couple of months ago and there was talk of moving the 11th green out of the 'crater' and taking it left.
Something about the poor surface on the green!

Mike,
I actually cannot believe that. While I think that 11 suffers from an awkward tee shot (which makes your talk about a tee from 10 to the 11th green very interesting), but that green complex is one of my favourites and not only for the amazing setting. That would be criminal!

Mike, do you think RA is one of the elite Australia courses? I just do not that great a separation and feel quite confident in its role in both the World 100 and Australia's top courses.

[Mike_Clayton]

Ben

My assumption is the members would never stand for the green moving but you never know!
The tee shot is not that great and nor is the blind shot over the hill at 10 which makes it disappointing the MacKenzie hole was never done.

The course is unquestionably in the top 6 in Australia.
The West course at Royal Melbourne stands apart but Kingston Heath Royal Adelaide,NSW,the East at RM and now Barnbougle Dunes make up the next tier.
There were some alterations made for the 1998 Open which have always looked odd to me - bunkers at 8,9,11,15 and 18 which were at odds with the original work - IMO.

[David_Tepper]

I have been watching some of the Golf Channel broadcast from Royal Adelaide over the past 3 days. Looks like they are getting a nice breeze. I like the way the course is playing. Clearly, you can spray it around a bit and have a chance to recover. On the other hand, there are lines and angles of play that reward the 'proper' shot.

[Sean_Tully]

Ben,

Great pics!  The picture of the third green is interesting for me in that it looks in some ways similar to a hole at the Meadow Club, ironically its third hole as well.

Some quick questions...
Does the hole play uphill?


Was there ever any bunkers short left of the green in that mounding?


What kind of contours are on the green, does it have a lot of movement on the right side that steps down to the fairway?

Do you have a picture that shows the contours of the third green?

This is getting weird, I just looked at the picture again and saw the structure to view the 4th fwy from the tee.  We have the same type of structure on the fourth tee as well with some subtle differences.

If I have my history correct Mackenzie was at Meadow Club first as he was on his way to Australia.  It could be possible that some of his work at that time could have been repeated, which makes some sense.

I enjoyed the drawing of Royal Adelaide it is wonderful I wish we had one for the Meadow Club.  I had a hard time making out the specifics, is there any other sources of that routing besides the SAGCA website and going to the clubhouse?

Sean

[Mike_Clayton]

Sean

The third goes up and over a saddle at about 190 yards than down to the green.
There were never any bunkers into that diagonal ridge although it was probably once short grass.
From memory the green has it's low point almost in the middle and it slowly rises up to the back edge from there.
There is not any dramatic contour in it.
There is a MacKenzie drawing in the club history book - they have plenty of copies so it would just be a matter of getting in touch with them.

[Bob_Huntley]

Mike,

Excluding the Gold Coast, which of the three cities has the best golfing weather....year round, Sydney, Melbourne or Adelaide?

Bob

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Bob H,
Adelaide is warmer and receives far less rain, probably part of why the conditions are generally so nice. I cannot believe people would go all the way to Australia and not go to Adelaide. The city is charming, the wine in Barossa is wonderful, food is superb and the beach is lovely as well.

Sean,
Unfortunately the comparisons between Meadow Club's third and RA's are on in the picture. The approach is played downhill, as opposed to up and the third at MC boasts far more interior contour, which is why it is one of my favourites! Neil Crafter chose the third as his hole to write about in Paul Daley's excellent new book - if you have not seen it I would highly recommend it.

Below is a picture looking back on the third at RA, which does not very well depict the subtle contour, but will show you the obvious difference from MC.

[James Bennett]

Ben

you are obviously a man of perception and taste!

I was at the golf on Sunday, walked the 18 holes with an early group in the morning and watched the last 5 holes by the leaders.  The greens were very firm, true and reasonably quick.  If you were playing a shot down-wind, or from any of the roughs, heaven help you if you landed on the green.  Into the wind, a 60 metre (yard) pitch could be made to back-up.  Down wind, the first bounce was a good 15 feet, followed by a second bounce before the check.  Most of the last holes were played with a 20 knot cross-breeze, the typical S-W sea breeze.  A shot held-up into the wind (a fade) would hold #16 par 3, a straight shot or a draw went long.

The pins were reasonably tight (apparently the Nationwide tour set the front 9, and the Australian tour the back 9!).  In typical MacKenzie/RAGC fashion, any attempt to cut the inside of the dogleg, and remaining on the inside was left with a nigh impossible shot to get near the pin.  A shot played to the far side of the fairway would leave an accessible pin, with a good shot.  #17 was played from a forward tee, with a shallow dogleg of fairway available.  #18 was played from the middle tee.  These tee's are required because of the public access and interaction with adjacent holes.

Looking forward to 2006

Even the Jacob's Creek red wine ( form the Braossa Valley an hour up the road) tasted lovely, and the Cooper's Pale Ale delightful (for those discerning beer-drinkers overseas, Adelaide is the home of Cooper's Ale).

[James Bennett]

Bob Huntley

which has the best weather - Sydney or Melbourne?  Well, it depends who you ask?  Sydney is sub-tropical ( a la North/South carolina) whereas Melbourne is mediterranean (somewhere between LA and san Francisco).  Similarly, Adelaide is very similar to LA, and Perth is probably like San Diego, perhaps a bit further south again.  If you want to check the annual weather summaries for these palces by month, go to the weather bureau summaries.  see web-site below.

Just remember, in Melbourne if you don't like the weather, just wait an hour and it will be different!  4 seasons in a day is a common claim, but generally very suitable for golf year-round.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Ben
you are obviously a man of perception and taste!

Thank you! With the cheap flights into Adelaide, the Magill Estate restaurant, RA and the city the NY Times called the best designed city, it is easy to take credit for good taste, so I will.

Were the higher scores Sunday due to the tougher pins, or general firmness? There were certainly not the same number of scores in the 60s on Sunday, as there were on Thursday.

[James Bennett]

Ben

unfortunately, i was at work on the earlier days, and played on Saturday.  However, we had some rain on Friday.  We have had a very mild February, with rain each month this summer (sometimes, we go for 4 months in summer with only one lot of significant rain).  So, handwatering of the greens was used throughout the week.  It helped in the bunker and surrounds presentation.  I doubt the greens could have been as firm on Saturday - they might have been, but I doubt it.  Certainly the wind was about on Sunday afternoon.  The event was played early in the day, to improve the timing of the feed into the US.  So, two tees were used on the weekend to get everyone around - the last groups hit off at about 11.00am.

Friday was a wilder day - any afternoon scores were really well earned.  Cooler weather, wind and rain squalls.

Bowditch (the winner) shot 63 at the course in the middle of winter a few years ago as a 17 year old (I think).  A national amateur 72 hole event is held in June each year.  It plays really long then, but not quite as firm.

If you are in Adelaide again. let me know.  There are many other hidden jewels, like Startos Cork and Cleaver (near Burnside) - apparently included in one notable writers best 10 steak houses in the world!  But at Adelaide prices of course.  Probably about $25-$30 for the top steaks ($Aus).

[Sean_Tully]

Mike and Ben

Thank you for the information on the third hole and the photo from the other angle. I was really reaching on that, but you have to ask some questions to get some answers. The routing done by Mackenzie looks awesome and I only wish that we had something like that to go by! Im still looking and maybe something will come up.  We just had a member give us a routing for Bell's Stanford course dated 1928, so you never know what you'll find.  

[James Bennett]

Ben and Mike Clayton

the rebuild of green #11 (see the picture in Ben's response #5) is under way.  The green is retaining the current design.  It is not changing location.  I understand that some of the back left pines may be reviewed, to allow more morning sunlight into the green  (especially in winter).

Mike, I agree with your comments about the 1998 changes.  The fairway pot bunkers are a different style to most of the rest of the course in both construction and strategy.  They have generally been built on the outside of the dogleg, contrary to MacKenzie style.

Also, if you refer back to Ben's great pic's, you will see the bunkering on the short par 3 #7.  As I understand it, MacKenzie re-routed the line of play to this green, previously (pre 1926 or so) approached from front left at about 8 o'clock on a clock face.  Hence, the green has more slope from back right to front left.  The picture also shows the bunkering style in play prior to Mackenzies visit (there is/was also a remaining steeple-chase bunker or two around the course, eg short of #10 green).  I apologise if I have got this wrong, but that is my understanding of some history here.  A great place!

[Jason McNamara]

The event was played early in the day, to improve the timing of the feed into the US.  

James,

Could you talk to the cricket folks about this?  The day/night ODIs tend to finish about 5 am Central [US], late even for this vampire.

Seriously, thanks for all the great info about the course/event.  Good for Bowditch, the way he steadied the ship on the back nine.

Jason

ps.  I had a really nasty cold a couple days ago, and it definitely helps with my Jack Newton impression.  

[James Bennett]

Jason

the ashes are being played in the UK next summer.  Just remember when planning your TV viewing that the difference between a one day international and a test match is normally about two days.  Don't plan on watching too much on days 4 and 5!