St. Andrews Lottery/Ballot Help

[Evan_Green]

3 friends and I are taking a trip to Scotland next August. I was unsuccessful in securing an advance tee time for the Old Course-- they said the next best course of action is to sign up for the lottery the day before to try to get a time-

If someone who has experience with the lottery could explain to me how it works,  it would be most appreciated.

If you arent successful with the lottery, how good of a chance is there to "walk on" if you show up first thing in the AM?

Thanks very much in advance for the help

[THuckaby2]

Evan:

How it works is simple:  you fill out a form you get right there at the starters' office, turn it in, they'll tell you when results are posted - I think it's in the late afternoon some time on the day prior to play.

Locals or people closer to St. Andrews can likely give better info regarding the chances of a foursome getting a time just by walking on, but I'd have to guess they're not good.  A single or twosome might have a decent chance, as groups less than four can and do make times and it's up to them to allow people to joining, filling them to four... but for all four of you, well... maybe if you split into two and two you'd have a chance, but getting all four on means an unfilled time and that doesn't tend to happen in August, I'd guess.  But Darren Kilfara among others could give better info and I might be too pessimistic.

In any case, I am here to tell you "winning" in the lottery does happen...  I got a prime time myself just putting a ballot in as a lark.  Obviously it depends on how many times are available and how many ballots are turned in, but you do never know...

TH

[Stan Dodd]

Evan,
I am batting a 1,000 with the lottery.  I have signed up twice and got my time twice.  You sign up as Tom says and the results are out at about 4:00 p.m. and are posted at the starter hut as well as in most hotels in town.  I think with the dollar to pound rate now travel may be a bit down which will increase your chances.  I am sure if you allow 3 or 4 days you will get out wihtout too much problem.
Enjoy
Stan Dodd

[Robert Thompson]

Evan: Two things -- keep a daily check of the St. Andrews site. Late availability does happen on the Old Course, as that's what happened to my group last year.
Secondly, though September is a busy time, the ballot does give you a fighting chance. We entered the first time in 2003 and got the second tee time of the day (6:40 am, good god).
You enter your name on the ballot and can check via the Internet or phone by mid-afternoon the day before.
We were playing Carnoustie the day before our round at St. Andrews, and the gentleman who ran the hotel (Joe of the Carnoustie Links Hotel) entered us in the ballot and checked whether we had gotten in.
Anyway, depending on the time, it can be relatively easy to get through the ballot. Apparently July is a good time -- the GM at the Old Course hotel said all their guests got through the ballot in July 2003.
American tourism is still down, so you've got a good chance.

Best of luck and let me know if I can offer any advice. Allan Ferguson has a great book (www.fergusongolf.com/book.htm) that will give you all the ins and outs of St. Andrews and many other Scottish courses as well.

[JohnV]

I was told that the best day to try to play is Monday.  To do that you have to sign up on Saturday (since the course is closed on Sunday).  Since a lot of people arrive in Scotland on Saturday, they frequently don't get signed up in time for the Monday times.

Also, if you have rooms booked with a B&B or even a hotel, ask if they can put you in the day before you arrive for the day you arrive.

When I was last there in 1995, the owner of the B&B we stayed at put us in on the Saturday for Monday and we got in with no problem.  We arrived on Sunday and already had she already had found out our tee time and told us when we got there.

[Brian Phillips]

Evan,

All the advice here is good stuff.  I would split the group into twos. I would be very surprised if you got in through the ballot as a foursome but you never know.

Good advice from John V as well.  Get the owners to put your names in the ballot if they can.

Brian

ps i just got in today on a cancellation for the middle of April.  I just checked the website, saw the available dates, rang up and booked the Jubillee at 0930 and the TOC at 1540...not bad..

[Michael Whitaker]

Evan - you shouldn't have any problem getting a time on the Old Course if you have two or three shots at the ballot. I have gone through the ballot four times and, fortunately, have been successful every time on the first try... each time for a foursome.

Our last trip to Scotland (August 2004) we pre-booked a round for our first day in Fife and left everything else open. Our B&B owner entered us into the ballot when we arrived and we were successful. Once we knew we had TOC booked on Day 2 we made tee times for the remainder of the week with no problem. I know it sounds scary traveling all that way with only one tee time pre-booked, but it worked out fine and we had no problem getting on the courses we really wanted to play in the area: TOC, Carnoustie, Kingsbarns, Crail.

[Jason Topp]

     There is a good article in the last Links Magazine regarding the possible methods for getting on the Old Course.  I have gone there twice in August (1992 and 2000) and played both times.  The first time our tour operator got us on but I was not real confident in the integrity of its methods.  

     In 2000 we failed to get on via the lottery for four straight days and got in line early the last morning.  You get a place in line number at around 7 in the morning and then each group that does not have four players has the option of allowing you to play with them or not.  The likelihood of getting on the course depends on how much of the day is blocked off for the R&A or other clubs.  It is a pain, but as long as you get there early enough, you are likely to get on the course, and at least a portion of your group will likely play together.

[Peter_Herreid]

Jason--

That is very interesting that the playing group itself can determine whether or not to let the additional player(s) join them.  I have been to TOC since 1998, when it was still possible to just be there early and get in the queue for the scattered open spots and then be joined up with the stray twosome or threesome...

Is this current procedure a function of the tour group "exclusivity" arrangements?  Does it seem a bit inappropriate for the group which could not fill 4 slots to determine whether or not the single can join them?  I suspect that it doesn't happen too often that the single is excluded, but nevertheless, I can see that being a sore spot for some folks...

[Jason Topp]

Peter:

I was told that the group had the option at the time I got in line.  I'm afraid I don't know much more than that.  It did seem like most groups agreed to allow the additional players to join.

[Bob_Huntley]

Jason,

As most of my experience at TOC is during the R&A Autumn Meeting in late August and September I would report thus. The Starter will ask the Members if we would be prepared to admit a single to join us. The reason is simple. Although a handicap card is required showing a male golfer to be a 24 hdcp or less, some people have been known to submit to subterfuge to play the course. On one occasion we had a Japanese player, claiming to be a six, join us. A big mistake. he couldn't break an egg, shot well into the hundreds and ruined a our day.

On another occasion, a so called double digit player cleaned our clocks by shooting a dazzling 66 on "The greatest round I've ever played" routine. I must say I did enjoy that performance. You can see why the Starter requests permission for you to join the group on the tee.

By the way, I always say yes.  


Bob

[Steve Lang]

 

I'm 1 for 1 on saturday lottery by tele call in...

we then walked the course on Sunday, with all the other folks, go to museum, have dinner

played monday.. great

one thing that a woman golf shop owner (? Maureen? step down shop just down street from 18th) told us was that we had the tee time.. they couldn't put anyone with us without our permission.. she knew a guy from NY who had been there for most of the week waiting to get on.. probably because he was staying at the pricey SA hotel..  we let him and another guy from NJ play with us..

[Jason Topp]

Bob:

Thanks for the information.  I certainly understand the need for some control.  People get a bit desperate when they are on the trip of a lifetime and are worried they will not get to play TOC.

By the way, the first time I played we were paired up with a guy from Ohio that clearly qualified as not meeting the handicap standard.  His first tee shot went about an inch.  About 15 feet from the home of golf, he then cheats and re-tees his ball.  He then whiffed.  It was uncomfortable and might have been a bit funny except I hadn't hit yet and was so nervous and this didn't help.  

My caddie was not amused.  He started yelling at the guy asking loudly in front of the assembled crowd whether he in fact played golf.  The guy was removed from the course after two holes, which made me glad I at least got some shots in the air.

I still have the videotape.  It is pricelessly narrated by my mother.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I have found that a single has little to no problems getting on. A two ball will get on the ballet more often than a 4 ball. You can let the golf professional at your hotel help you or do it yourself. I have paid face value for tee times from other hotels through my hotel golf professional. I like the gentleman at the Rusacks much better than TOC hotel. There are several ways to skin the cat. I no longer worry about getting on with the ballot. I just make sure to be in St. Andrews for 3 or 4 days. Kingsbarns and several other courses will work around TOC so you do not lose your deposits as well.