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wsmorrison

Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2005, 11:37:03 AM »
Andy,

Indian Spring was 100% Ross from 1922 up until 1944 when housing started to take up club grounds and holes 4-9.  Flynn died at the latter stages of a redesign cramming a full 18 holes into the smaller available space.  As I recall, only the former 13th hole remained of the original Ross holes until this course too became an NLE.

Beaver Dam was known as Prince George's and was built in 1921 by Ross.  Flynn redesigned the course in 1927.

 

wsmorrison

Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2005, 12:13:07 PM »
Earlier, Craig mentioned Washington Golf and Country Club.  On a hilly site near a great diner we walked this interesting course that Wilson and Flynn helped revitalize the agronomics in 1917 and 1919 and 1922 Flynn redesigned the 1915 Ross.

Here is the interesting 2nd hole that Flynn reworked:


Andy Hughes

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Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2005, 02:13:14 PM »
Quote
The Layhill Rd course was designed and built in the 1950s by William and David Gordon after the original Indian Spring site was finally claimed by the state for part of I495.
Craig, right, Layhill, not Laytonsville. Just shows I haven't played Northwest in too long.  ;)
Thanks for the history--I never knew there was a course near Blair HS, but I'll definitely be looking for the clubhouse next time I drive by.

Quote
I'm not aware of Woodmont's plans to sell but I have heard rumors that they are considering selling the club (the land value must be staggering) and moving farther out.
Yes, the land must be incredibly valuable now.  I didn't mean to start a rumor--I have no idea if it is true or not. A friend in the area (who frankly would not necessarily know either way) mentioned it to me last week.

Wayne, where is Washington G&CC, and why have I never even heard of it-I have been up here for 5 years now, long enough to at least have heard of most of the good ones if not played any of them.  
What's going on to the left of that green-was that an upper and a lower bunker that have gone to grass?
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

wsmorrison

Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2005, 02:37:25 PM »
Andy,

Washington Golf & Country Club
18-hole (Private)
3017 N Glebe Rd
Arlington, VA 22207
United States (Arlington County)
Phone: (703)524-4600
Fax: (703)243-4556

Its worth checking out.  I'm not sure about those indentations on the left.  They look like they might be old bunkers.  We don't have the Flynn plans for this course.  It might just be hollows from fill being used elsewhere.  It is a very hilly golf course with some interesting holes.  Check it out when the snow disappears!

Andy Hughes

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Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2005, 02:45:59 PM »
Oh, its on that side of the River.  ;)
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

BCrosby

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Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2005, 03:30:45 PM »
My wife's parents were members of WG&CC. I played it in 1980/81 a couple of times.  I had no idea that Flynn was involved with the course. (Heck, at the time the only Flynn I knew about was Erroll.)

WG&CC is very hilly and crammed into a small area. A nice urban course. I remember it being well-conditioned but with trees over-hanging most fairways.

Best of all, they served doubles of Scotch in the Men's Grill for the price of a single. So my memory of the course is not as sharp as it might be.

Bob

« Last Edit: January 31, 2005, 03:34:08 PM by BCrosby »

Evan Fleisher

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Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2005, 03:42:14 PM »
I had the pleasure of meeting with Craig back in December of '02 at Manor CC to walk, talk, dream about what he was trying to accomplish with his membership back then.  I'm sorry to hear that both the battle and the war have been lost to this cause, and I think that the club might not be as well off had Craig been able to convince them otherwise what to do with their course.

It was obvious to me that Craig has a deep passion for the game and especially for this classic course...it showed as we walked the grounds and he pointed out all the special places on the property and what possibilities lie ahead, but unfortunately those dreams will never come to pass.

It will be interesting to see what ultimately comes of the course and how it is perceived by the membership...I wish them the best, but fear so much more could have been done.
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

wsmorrison

Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2005, 03:42:41 PM »
"Best of all, they served doubles of Scotch in the Men's Grill for the price of a single. So my memory of the course is not as sharp as it might be."

Very appropriate, Bob as that seemed to be Flynn's beverage of choice according to Tom Paul's reporting from Flynn's daughter.

T_MacWood

Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2005, 03:55:23 PM »
What architect is responsible for the 2nd hole at Washington G & CC?

wsmorrison

Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2005, 04:24:50 PM »
I don't think anybody knows with certainty.  

According to the WGCC history, Donald Ross proposed a deluxe and a not so deluxe course to the Club in 1909.  They chose the not so deluxe so all Ross did was walk the grounds and staked out the golf course.  In 1915 the name was changed from Washington Country Club to Washington Golf and Country Club.

The Wilson-Piper/Oakley letters mention agronomic work that Wilson and Flynn appeared to do in 1917.

The letters also show that Flynn was doing some favorable redesign work in 1919.  

According to the club history, in the spring of 1922 the new holes 4-8 were put into play and reconstruction was completed on 15 and 16.  

The club history book is a bit unclear but later in 1922 or in 1925 Flynn did improvements to the course including holes 2, 3, 9, 14 and 18.  It says the following autumn, Sept 1926 a putting course was planted.

Jason Mandel

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Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2005, 04:45:14 PM »
I'm not certain on this, but didn't Hills do some work at Washington Golf & Country Club recently about 3 years ago?

Jason
You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

Jason Mandel

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Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2005, 04:51:23 PM »
My mistake, I was thinking of BELLE HAVEN
You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

Craig Disher

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Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2005, 05:02:09 PM »
Wayne,
In the book a member recalled that the early #2 was in the same location that it is now. With the irregular shape of the property and the prominence of the hill, I think even an amateur architect would find that greensite.

A 1940 photo shows that bunkers once surrounded the the green;  the remnants are visible in your color photo.


Sean_A

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Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2005, 05:02:26 PM »
Robert

A. Hills is possibly the most prolific arhitect in Michigan.  I would say he is very well known.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Jimmy Muratt

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Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2005, 05:02:29 PM »
Belle Haven just re-opened last year after the total renovation by Arthur Hills.  The course hardly resembles the old course at all.  Here is a link with a story on the new layout with quite a few pics....

http://www.golfthemidatlantic.com/story/239

BCrosby

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Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2005, 05:09:06 PM »
Wayne/Craig -

I recall the hole being pretty severely downhill. Looks like they have also cut back some trees on the left.

Bob
« Last Edit: January 31, 2005, 05:11:51 PM by BCrosby »

Paul Carey

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Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2005, 05:33:17 PM »
There was some renovation work done there a few years ago (3-5 I think) that included some bunkering and grading around a few greens.  I have no idea who did it and whether they were trying to restore the original design.  However I felt a number of the changes were fairly modern.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2005, 05:35:33 PM by Paul Carey »

wsmorrison

Re:A Flynn restoration - summer 2005
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2005, 06:08:39 PM »
Craig,
I have only have the 1951 photo of Washington GCC.  Are there any significant differences between that and the 1940 photo you posted?  It doesn't appear that way in the case of #2.  Can I get a copy of the 1940?  Please?  Are we going to meet on Wednesday?  Tom can meet us at the Hagley if you're able.
Best,
WSM