The Best of the Best

[Joe Hancock]

JES II,

Nothing beats an early year "three club" match. No bag, no scorecard, 3 balls, a relaxing walk, and a small flask shared by friends.

I think we would all be better players if we played more often with less clubs.

Ian,

We'd all be better friends with more flasks as well!

Joe

[Sean_A]

I normally play with 8 unless I get a ride.  Tom is right though, I usually get caught out 2 or 3 times in a game.  It is usually because of a strong wind against and I need a 3 wood to keep the ball down.  Instead I am forced to hit a 5 iron or 7 wood.  If the lie is decent, I will try to hit a low, cutty sark driver.  I figure even if I mcduffy it, the ball usually goes as a far as either of the other two choices.  

I can't be bothered to carry all those wrenches.  Most of the time I would rather walk and preserve my back with a lighter load than ride.  It just seems easier and less hassle.  Speaking of which, in my ideal world, riding would not happen unless there is a shot value placed on the carts.  Some of the boys I play with will cut handicaps by two for people that ride!

As for drinks, I like my first to be a fine pint of Speckled Hen.  After two pints, perhaps a G&T or two.

Ciao

Sean

[TEPaul]

Shivas:

It was Joe Dey who forced through the rule on a maximum of 14 clubs. Maybe he did it in 1938 but I would think it would've been later than that seeing as it was Joe Dey. And this is precisely why one can never say that everything about the "Golden Age" was the best it ever was. For starters the agronomy compared to the modern age and today totally sucked. I doubt there's a purist anywhere who really would want all of that old agronomy if he had to play it on a regular basis today! Not unless he was in love with worms and casts and insects and critters!!  

[Sean_A]

Shivas

My reasoning for reducing the clubs is because I think it is the only effective way to combat technology.  I don't believe it is possible to stop the advance of better balls and clubs.  It is part and parcel of manufacturing competition.  However, if there are half the wrenches in the bag, it is harder for a craftsman to do his job.

Ciao

Sean

[TEPaul]

Shivas:

Good find there on the institution of the 14 club rule. I don't know where I read recently that one of Joe Dey's fixations was bringing in the 14 club rule---or defending it or something like that. I'll see if I can find where I read that recently.

[Mark Brown]

-Walking only (except for medical excuses)pull carts available
-Generous fairways to create strategy with angles, etc., incl. diagonal cross bunkers and occasional split fairways. You can't always play directly to green or pin
-Increase the element of chance and luck:semi-blind shots, pot bunkers wherever you want. A little breeze that changes constantly.
- Wild and creative greensites posing every shot Tiger and Phil can imagine
-Bold contours, green speeds up to 9.5
-Bunkers on the small side or clusters of small ones and plenty of humps and hollows, deception with bunkers,etc.
-Greens- wide variety of sizes
- lakes and ponds occasionally -- for a cape hole-- but with bail-out areas
-light fescue in wide open areas
-firm turf thru out, no overseeding
-higher cuts on grassy areas -- fairways half-inch at least, light rough, chipping areas cut high enough to chip without nerves of steel. Firm sand. Un-raked sandy waste areas
- All the facilities under-stated with wood, leather, comfort, fireplace. Very minimal accessories on course
-No yardages -- that's part of the game
-Less traditional with equipment. Let's stop right where we are (but throw-out the newest jumbo drivers)Maybe cut back a little on the titanium spring effect.
- 15 Clubs: 4 metals, 7 irons (replace 3 iron with rescue club)
3 wedges, putter (I'm not a scratch player obviously)
-Lighter weight bags
-Tees - let's get everyone playing the tees that enables them to play the holes the way  the architect designed them- using every club in the bag
-Short par 4s, 2 or 3 reachable par-fives - with a lot of risk-reward, one par 3 of 125 yards or less.
-Easy course access to everyone -- every town should have 3 or more munis - cheap
- Holes look harder than they play


-

[Andy Hughes]

It's not really so complicated, is it? For those who think it is more fun to head out with 6 clubs in a lightweight bag, do so!
For those who think it is more fun to play 30 year old Staff irons and persimmon woods, do so!
For those who prefer the game with a $400 driver the size of a VW Bug, buy and use said driver (but don't tell me that driver is 'affordable')!
For those who prefer to use classic equipment, who think the game is more fun, more varied and more interesting with 7 clubs, who want to try a variety of shots, high and low, spinning and bouncing, but don't do any of those things because they have a nassau or somesuch going on, analyze your priorities!

[JESII]

TEP

As to your post #25, I do and have known that about HVCC and feel very lucky for that. Interesting story about your superintendent calls, Scott is certainly a prized treasure by those of us at HV that pay enough attention to his work to understand.

As you have mentioned, my father was the green chairman for about 10 years as Scott was perfecting his MM and they developed a very good relationship. My father currently helps me with the Lynnewood Hall Invitational, and so at a meeting this year about the Lynnewood Hall I asked him if we needed to work with Scott on what dates are best for him, and therefore the golf course. We typically play the tournament the week after the 4th of July, and this year we are hosting the PA Amateur the 25-27 of July. Playing these two events in such close proximity to each other would cause extreme stress to most courses and would probably never even be scheduled like that, so when I asked the question my father said it would be no problem, that you could give Scott a weeks notice so he could do some grooming on the greens and the course will be perfect for both events. This confidence only develops out of a consistent production of the best maintained golf course in the area, and this is what we truly believe we get from Scott Anderson every year.


Some of the posts on the Golden Age Fairways thread reflect exactly what is done at HVCC, minus the wide fairway part which is a preferance of mine. Our fairways are typically a little fuller than most courses and we keep the rough very modest (2-3 inches for the most part).

[TEPaul]

"As you have mentioned, my father was the green chairman for about 10 years as Scott was perfecting his MM and they developed a very good relationship. My father currently helps me with the Lynnewood Hall Invitational, and so at a meeting this year about the Lynnewood Hall I asked him if we needed to work with Scott on what dates are best for him, and therefore the golf course. We typically play the tournament the week after the 4th of July, and this year we are hosting the PA Amateur the 25-27 of July. Playing these two events in such close proximity to each other would cause extreme stress to most courses and would probably never even be scheduled like that, so when I asked the question my father said it would be no problem, that you could give Scott a weeks notice so he could do some grooming on the greens and the course will be perfect for both events. This confidence only develops out of a consistent production of the best maintained golf course in the area, and this is what we truly believe we get from Scott Anderson every year."

Jim:

There you go! What you said there about HVGC and the way the club and Scott Anderson maintain it is basically proof positive of the truth of what Scott told me. That kind of approach and reaction to multiple tournaments in the middle of the summer is as rare as hen's teeth in my opinion.

Anybody who reads this should contemplate what it really means. I'd challenge any super on this board or even any club member anywhere to claim they do or can do the things on a golf course with firm and fast and the "ideal maintenace meld" that Scott Anderson and HVGC does. I don't think anyone else does it---at least to that extent-----YET!!

[TEPaul]

Jim:

I don't recall seeing an old aerial of the fairway widths of HVGC or any design drawings of Flynn's either. But going through the course in my mind it's hard for me to say right now where I think it would serve some really good strategic purposes---let's just say for the strategic purpose of temptation first. Something tells me there could be some real interest and temptation if there were a lot more fairway over the creek right on #12 (some trees would have to go) and if there were a lot more fairway on both sides of #15 particularly right over the right bunkers on the tee shot to tempt players to carry right over those more frequently (however I don't know how challenging that is as I can't recall how much tee length you have on that hole now or whether there's some elasticity back there). You do know, don't you that #14 green and the first half of #15 are not Flynn. They're very likely Joe Kirkwood! Fairway over the bunkers right on #14 might be interesting too, and I think that hole does have tee length elasticity. What do you think about the tee shot and fairway on #18, particularly as far right as possible really enhancing the temptation of that excellent diagonal ridge all the way out?

[JESII]

Tom

There is one aerial photo of the course hanging in the locker room, I'll have to take a closer look to see about fairway widths.

Putting that aside, I think wider fairways would add enough strategic value to several of the holes that it might be worth a try.

I like your idea for #12, especially because I would also like to extend the hole 20 yards and in so doing (because of the diagonally crossing creek) significantly increase the lay-up area short of the creek and to the right. If the trees are removed it would help the playability of shots from either side of the creek in what is now rough.

#15 does not really hav much elasticity remaining, we have lengthened it in the last 3 or 4 years. It is on the same line as always, and is now about 580 yds. with the carry over the corner of the bunker about 285. Unfortunately that 285 number does not scare off many of todays top players. Because we typically leave our rough fairly short and playable and there is every opportunity to run the ball on the green from 75 yds or so most people try to hit the ball over that corner of the bunker and feel that the rough is no worse than the fairway. One option to combat this would be to make the fairway bunker more penal and visually intimidating. Other than the fact that it might be out of character among the other fairway bunkers at HVCC this would certainly make for a more interesting tee shot.

#18 - Interesting thought about emphasizing the ridge, it could be displayed as a mis-direction point. For the good player, they might think the fact that the fairway is drawn along the ridge means that is where you would want to hit your drive, while they may eventually learn that the best approach comes from further away from that ridge, in the current center or left-center of the fairway.
This hole is a great opportunity to lengthen in my opinion, for top amateurs the hole has become a drive and short iron the majority of the time, there is a natural pad about 15 yards back amd 7 or 8 yards to the right. This makes it more difficult to carry the ridge in the fairway which catapults balls forward, as well as increasing the left to right angle the hole takes which should increase the visual difficulty from the tee.