trees IN bunkers?!?!?!

[PThomas]

hard for me to EVER think of a time when this "double-penalty" is a good idea, but you do see it from time to time....sure, "all bunkers are fair", but I think getting in one is punishment enough, that having a tree in it is well is a bit much...anyone disagree??

[Doug Siebert]

While I agree with you in principle, since it is sort of a cheap shot to do this to players, I have a hard time thinking of as a "double penalty".  Having to deal with a tree in a bunker isn't all that different from a penalty perspective than having a deep side-out pot bunker in play.

I'd actually be more critical of a bunker with a tree directly in front of it than a bunker with a tree in it, because the bunker with the tree in it is a much more obvious and in your face hazard.  Since perspective isn't always good from the tee, there have been a few times I'd have a rude surprise when I decide a fairway bunker looks pretty flat and simple and I shouldn't worry about going into it, then after going into it find I can't play a shot at the green because of the tree.

[TEPaul]

There was a tree that effected a shot from a bunker I remember at Pacific Dunes (#8, I think). It wasn't in the bunker but it could've had an effect on a swing within that bunker. I have no problem at all with that---as long as it doesn't become some sort of standard or formula.

I do think that perhaps the very best example of a course that should go on a project to competely remove trees from around and within its bunkers, though, is PVGC. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of trees around the course that are in and around the old original bunkers that completely shuts down on their look and purpose and I just know that's not the way it was intended to be or supposed to be today.

As good as the golf course is and has always been it would look better and be even better than it already is if they began a dedicated project to remove every tree from in and around every bunker on that golf course. And if they bothered to do that I feel they should also sell all their sand-pros and then the course truly would remain ranked on top of the world of architecture and most deservedly so, in my opinion.

The latter would also send a very important message of what bunkers truly are (in function) and the way they should be "non-maintained" in their general sand areas (simply because PVGC is #1 and so highly respected). They were that way for decades on end---that sort of thing was one of the unique features of the golf course that got them their reputation and got them where they are and the club should not forget that important fact, in my opinion!  

[cary lichtenstein]

We had one at the course I belonged to in Illinois, the tree was just behind the bunker, but it grew down into the bunker, so you had to grip down to the metal and it a low shot that stopped.

I always liked that because I spent about 3 hours one weekend late in the day, and learned the shot, while for 30 years, I watched everyone moan and grown about that tree, "How unfair it was, etc" and I kind of just chuckled.

[S. Huffstutler]

I wonder if you are referring to trees in formal, daily maintained bunkers or waste areas. I don't think I've ever seen a tree in a formal bunker, but I have seen many in waste or scrub areas and personally, I think it looks pretty neat.

steve

[Brian_Gracely]

Good tree or bad tree?

[RJ_Daley]

I don't know how many trees I've seen grow into what was originally a bunker that was grassed in.  I saw a number of them at Happy Hollow in Omaha last year.  And, as Tom P says, there are those that have grown so close and encroaching to bunkers that were never meant to be there.  

I've even seen where a so-called renovation archie had added a FW bunker very close to an over hanging tree where the limbs were definitely presenting a double hazard problem.  I think that is stupid design.

[RJ_Daley]

Mike, in my opinion, very bad.  First the double hazard, second the birch is a crap tree that is messy and causes constant clean-up problems.  Birch roots are shallow and could be close enough to the surface to hurt your wrist if you catch one, although the sand may promote deeper rooting than regular soil.

What appears to be a maple on the left is so-so.  But, I wonder if roots won't also spread and involve the drain lines under that bunker too, along with fall leaves adding to drainage inhibiting.

Very nice green complex and bunkers, however...

[bstark]

  Trees in bunkers are one of my biggest pet peeves when playing. Pawleys Island and Bears Paw, both Nicaklaus courses are two that come to mind where this feature is prevalent.
  I think they are excessive/redundant/lazy design whatever you want to call them. Maybe just call it "over design" In my opinion trees should be one hazard, bunkers  another. Never together.
  By the way, the tree above would look great in my fireplace.

[S. Huffstutler]

Yeah....now that I think about it, I guess I have seen a few of those. I don't like the tree in the formal bunker, but I don't mind them in waste bunkers. Although that is a great looking hole, the tree is a bit overly penal, I guess. Seems a little nit picky, though, I mean...don't hit your ball there.

steve

[A_Clay_Man]

Seems that taking away the ability to fully recover, is at the core of why this practice should be used sparingly.

[PThomas]

Brian -- I agree with Mr. Daley (don't know your first name!) re your picture....I just cannot fathom why an architect would deliberately build a bunker with a tree in it or right next to it (or why a course would let one keep growing if it developed after construction)..definitely not minimalistic....reminds me of those courses that feel the need for heavy rough in forested areas...

as for trees in waste areas -- and perhaps I shouldn't use that term, because, as someone on Mr. Fazio's staff told me, "there are no wasted areas on golf courses" --  my first thought is that those are probably okay, but not the point of overkill:  if there's lots of trees in an area, why establish a waste area?

[George_Bahto]

Pete' got a bunker in the middle of a small island, all in a bunker at Harbour Town

[S. Huffstutler]

 if there's lots of trees in an area, why establish a waste area?

'Cause grass won't grow there.

steve

[Jeff_Mingay]

There's a large tree in the centre of a left side driving area bunker at the 12th hole at Oakland Hills-South. It's so ridiculous looking that I took a photo of it last fall.

Unfortunately though, I don't have the ability to post the pic.

[mike_malone]

 I don't seem to have a big problem with trees in bunkers in small doses. First of all, you are in a hazard to start with. The best examples are easily visible and off the ideal line of play. Also, if it is an interesting type of tree the bunker tends to frame it, making it more visulally attractive.

    How much different is it from the Scotch broom that used to be in the Merion bunkers?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Ron Garl left a tree in a trap on the short par 4 12th at Hidden Creek in Narvarre, Florida. When maintained at all this is a good course.

[PThomas]

Mike -- I think Merion is the "exception that proves the rule", and how cool for it to have 2 distinguishing trademarks....Merion is in my top 10 list of courses I want to play someday...

and do you know when and why the broom came out?

[peter_p]

TEP-
Yes, the tree branches were between the left rear bunker and the right side of the green on Pacific Dunes 8, but they have been removed.
A slight pity, as I knew how to hit a punch shot under them, whicle others didn't.

[Bill_McBride]

Has anybody played the Navy-Marine course near Pearl Harbor on Oahu?  I played there in the mid-60's and remember one neat feature.  There was a greenside bunker, leftside of #2 as I recall, a good mid length par 4 maybe 410 yds, that had a palm tree growing out of it!

Being a palm tree and tall, it didn't really affect play unless you were lucky enough to be directly behind it, and was pretty good looking.

That's the only tree-in-a-bunker I've ever thought worked.

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