No Golden Age links?

[Andy Levett]

Of the four eras of GCA listed on the home page of this site many people’s favourite is the second, 1900-1937. Similarly, of the various varieties of course, many people’s favourite is links.
So where are the golden age links?

Sure, Muirfield and Portrush are more Colt’s than anybody’s but in both cases he was carrying out major surgery on what was already there, rather  than working with virgin linksland. Same for Simpson at Cruden and Ballybunion or MacK at Lahinch and Seaton Carew.
In fact, if you don’t count courses where the best land was already taken -  which excludes the Eden -  and are strict about your definition of linksland - which excludes the likes of Pebble and Cypress - I can’t think of any wholly original links built between 1900 and 1937.
Are there any?

[Marc Haring]

I am sure there are many. Colt's Rye, Fowlers Saunton?

[Andy Levett]

Marc,
Saunton had a course before Fowler got there.
Colt did have first crack at Rye in 1894 but there were a lot of changes later. (Course profile on this site says little Colt remains. There   was  a detailed thread a while back on Rye's architectural history but I've just done a search and can't find it).

I too find it hard to believe that  - Rye excepted - Colt, MacK, Simpson et al never routed the first course on a prime parcel of linksland. But I can't think of one.

[ForkaB]

Andy

My guess is that most of the good (and accessible) linksland had already been built upon in some manner by 1900.  Wasn't the "Golden Age" really all about trying to recreate the challenges of linksland in places which didn't have linksland (e.g. inland Britain, all of the USA)?

There obviously was lots of prime linksland available in 1900--one only has to look at the courses that have been built in Ireland since the war to see that.  Why wasn't it built on?  Well, as Deep Throat once famously said, "Follow the money!"  Why would Londoners want to create more less accessible links courses when they had more than enough to meet their holiday need (e.g. TOC, Sandwich, Dornoch, Nairn, etc.)?  What they needed were good courses near their homes, hence Sunningdale, Swinley, St. Georges Hill, etc.

Of course, there were a lot of effectively "new" courses built by the GA crowd in the 1900-1940 period on old golfing linksland, e.g. Muirfield, as you say.  In fact there was a lot of significant and mostly good renovation/improvement done over that period (Carnoustie, Royal Aberdeen, Dornoch, Prestwick, etc.), but that doesn't "count" as GCA by this tough crowd we are playing with (us!).

[T_MacWood]

The first great links design of the 'golden age' was Princes. It was noted for its scientific bunkering scheme and was as influencal upon the 'modern' golf architecture movement as any golf course at that time (1904).

Others: St.Andrews-Eden, Longniddry, Troon-Portland, Trevose, Saunton (New) and Turnberry (New). Saunton and Turnberry added new courses to existing older links....that maybe true with Portrush as well.

Willie Park-Jr designed a number of links courses right before and after the turn of the century (Western Gailes, Gullane #2, Silloth, Seaford and Formby). You'd have to give strong consideration to Rye--Colt's first design and Brancaster--laid out by Horace Hutchinson and friend.

There were many links or linksy course built on the French, Belgium and Dutch coasts. But generally it is true most of the 'golden age' links work was done over existing golf courses, which makes sense, becasue these ancient courses often popped up on the best land.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Just the finest links course in England...Royal Birkdale
Founded in 1888
Moved to Birkdale hills in 1894
Links development started in   1922...the wonderful golden age
Just for interest, the clubhouse was then built in 1935.

[ForkaB]

Michael

Do you realise that through your love for Birkdale you are standing in opposition to the conventional wisdom of this site, and it's beloved founder?

PS--I agree with you.........

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Yes, I have gathered that this site prefers the likes of Deal and Rye..and thats why they call them opinions!!
All I can say, is that growing up I had the privelage of playing most of the respected  courses in either junior or amateur events, and the dunes of Birkdale just drew me in.
I first saw the course, just after I started palying golf as a teenager in 1976 on a visit to The Open..and it was love at first sight.

I can see the viewpoint of some of the other folks on this site, even if I cannot come close to agreeing with them.
To me the courses on that south east coast do not match up to those in the north west..but perhaps at some unconscious level that is the north..versus...south bias that we people who grew up north of london seem to have !!!!

I spoke on the phone to Mr Sweeney a couple of weeks ago, and told him that I just did not understand the fascination with the likes of rye and deal, perhaps I am not smart enough, or perhaps having growm up playing links golf I just look at the courses a little differently.
I think it is the latter, because I also see many of the newer course over here so differently to many on this site.
For instance the positive viewpoint that many express regarding Whistling Straits is totally beyond me..I have never seen such a blatant exhibition of man made exageration ..to call it a potential great course to me is just something I cannot relate to..I think the same of Sawgrass....but that is just the traditionalist in me.....just opinions..long live those of the Philly Age!!!

[ForkaB]

Sean

Sandwich is the closest "great" English course to Birkdale, IMO.  Haven't played Princes, yet.

Michael

I love Rye and Deal, but they are each a "kinder, gentler" sort of course.  Vs. Sandwich and Birkdale much as NGLA is to Shinnecock, or Cypress to Pebble Beach.

[ForkaB]

Sean

Birkdale
Sandwich
Lytham
Rye
Hoylake

Slainte!

[ForkaB]

Sean

Never played golf in Wales.  Is this a fatal flaw?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Inspired by Andy's question, I trawled the archives and came up with the following for GB.  I don't know enough about Ireland to stick my neck out there.  You'll probably say that some of these aren't true links, but at least it's a basis for argument.

Perranporth (1927), Trevose (1924), Hartlepool (1906) (part links), Prince's (1906), North Shore (1910) (part links), Caldy (1907) (part links), Hillside (1911), Hoylake Municipal (1933), Southport & Ainsdale (1906), Warren (1911), Gorleston (links?) 1906, Bamburgh Castle (1904) (part links), Dunstanburgh Castle (1900), Magdalene Fields (1903), Turnberry (1906), The Glen (1906) (part links), Prestatyn (1905), Abersoch (1907), Nefyn (1907), Porthmadog (1905), Pwllheli (1900) (part links), Anglesey (1914), Holyhead (1912), Pyle & Kenfig (1922).

One of our outstanding links courses dates from 1947 - Southerness.  We never seem to hear about it on GCA.  I think it is superb, but what do others think?  By the way, I love Birkdale and have said so before on GCA, but I always issue a caveat before recommending it to others.  

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

My top ten
Royal Birkdale
Royal Lytham
Royal St Georges
Royal Cinque Ports
Formby
Hillside
Burnham and Berrow
Hunstanton
Princes
Royal West Norfolk

Now I know I am in trouble no Rye in my top ten..do you get the impression that maybe I did not play well in that tournament?
I hate to be that shallow that performance  influences  my opinion, but that can be the only explanantion for my ignorance!!!!

[T_MacWood]

Michael
The Birkdale links (at the present site) dates back to the 1890's; it was redesiged by Taylor and Hawtree in 1931. I would agree Ran and some the others prefer Rye, Sandwich, Westward Ho!, Hoylake, Brancaster, Deal, St.Enodoc and few others, but it gets support from a number of GCAers.

Darwin wasn't crazy about T&H's Birkdale either, and he was pretty familiar with links golf.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I don't think it's a fatal flaw never to have played links golf in Wales but there are some terrific courses at the level just below the top.  There's nowhere that will challenge Sandwich or Hoylake, but places like Porthmadog and Tenby have such character, and who could fail to be bowled over by the fascination of Pennard or Nefyn?  

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Tom, The dates I quoted came straight from the clubs official history, so if they are incorrect....I apologise.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Tom,

I think Birkdale has changed a lot since 1931.  A few years ago I was playing there with a member who took me off into the undergrowth all over the course to show me where some of the 1931 holes were - quite different from today.  

[ForkaB]

Michael

No Hoylake?

I know it is an acquired taste, but surely Top Ten.  No?

As for Rye, the start is pedestrian, but most of #4 onwards is pretty special.  Also, whatever is the metaphysical equivalent of "eye candy" is always present.  Intimations of Darwin and Micklem and Ted Dexter waft through the links.   They're playing the President's Putter there today.........

[T_MacWood]

Michael
They moved to the present site in 1897. The British Ladies was played at Birkdale in 1909.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Sean,

I meant to imply that it was not a fatal flaw never to have played links golf in Wales.

What attracts you about Conwy?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Tom
The clubs history book said the move occured in 1894, bit the course lay out was not completed until 1922..I am not trying to be a smart arse or argue, those are the dates I have in front of me.
Rich,
The lack of Hoylake, may be the result of another poor tournament showing!!!
I have always thought of it as an ugly course lacking much natural charm..what do you think?  But a tough course thats for sure, what a great opening tee shot as well..almost as good as the openining shot at Royal BirkdalE!!!!!
The ghosts of Rye...ah what a romantic thought..Micklem was great for golf, a great man.
I played with him at Sunningdale once and he was a non stop story teller..and what stories.

[Marc Haring]

Three of my favourite courses (all mentioned above) that don’t seem to be much appreciated on GCA. I love them, but that’s one of the joys of golf, each to his own.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Great photos,
As I sit here in Arkansas, watching my beloved Manchester United struggling to a 0;0 draw in the FA Cup, I long to be on the links land of home.....roll on August and the Birkdale Goblet/Formby Hare weekend...I shall return!!!!!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Sean,

I certainly don't dispute Harlech's claim.  I love it, but I know that many on GCA who have visited it have been disappointed because it doesn't really utilise the dunes until the late holesand you cannot see the sea.  My wife and I were there (not to play golf) just before Xmas.  It was a cold but clear day, the mountains of Snowdonia covered in snow, the golf course playing (as you would expect) from the normal tees to the normal greens (no winter rubbish here) and the golf, I suspect, very little different from what you would find in mid-summer.

I asked the question about Conwy because I am a member there.  It's not the last word in architecture but it is a hard course on which to play to your handicap.  In truth, I would say that the architecture is tired - it needs a shot of Doak!  The problems have been military occupation in two World Wars which have flattened the dunes which clearly existed long ago.  Since then the holes have been laid out and altered by the club.  True, Frank Pennink, Brian Huggett and Neil Coles have been involved in various tinkerings over the years, and David Williams built the new (and tricky) 2nd, but, on the whole, it longs for features in keeping with the scale of the mountains, estuary and sea which form its boundaries.

The bunkering has been addressed in the last year and they are much better defined than they were, but I fear that too few of them will be relevant to the great and good who will come here in 2006 to (final) qualify for the Open Championship at Hoylake.  They need to be a lot further from the tee - especially if the course is dry and the ball is running, as it does with unwatered links fairway and little rain.

I watched the Boys' Home Internationals here a few years ago and Nick Dougherty, James Heath, Zane Scotland and others were playing.  It was dry, windless (very unusual) and the greens were fast.  The course was defenceless against 350+yard drives (280 yard carry and 70 yard run).

[Paul_Turner]

It's not just us GCAers who thought Birkdale didn't stack up with the best.  Virtually none of the old critics, Darwin et al, had much enthusiasm for the track.  And they were right!

I wonder how great that course would have been if one of the best architects had worked there.

Birkdale is one of those courses that has been overrated because of the Open and the pros.  The same crowd that probably thinks Wentworth is better than Swinley...Colt would have a laugh at that one!

Andy

Yes I think you have to go to Europe for a high proportion of virgin, post 1900, links sites.