[Sébastien Dhaussy]

I’ve started to read « The Golden Age of Golf Design » by Geoff Shackelford and have some questions.

I was not aware, before this reading, of the geometric design (chocolate drop mounds, grave-shaped hazards, square greens,...) of many of the first American courses.
In the book, there are some examples of this geometric design: original Annandale Golf Club, College Arms Golf Club, ... .

My questions are:
1) Is there still courses in US where we can see these old features (chocolate drop mounds,...)? Where ?
 
2) I’ve read the interview of Bob Cupp on GCA and learn he has designed Palmetto Hall Plantation in 1992 with geometric features. Are there other examples of modern courses with geometric features like that ?

3) Are the square tees of the current courses a reminiscence (and perhaps the only) of this early geometric design period?

[wsmorrison]

I had the pleasure to walk Merion Golf Club's West Course yesterday with Mark Chalfont--his first visit and my umpteenth (thanks Mr. D).  

This is a pure 1913 architecture except for one green site (13) that was modified when a snack shack was put in behind the green necessetating some mounding.  But the course is full of quirk and the bunkers in the mounds look pretty neat even though there are few bunkers on the course.  

You can see where earth was scooped out to build up greens, but very few were sanded.  

There is one GREAT rectangular green (12) with no bunkers on the entire hole.  

There are low mounds all over the place--not geometric chocolate drops per se but interesting mounds that give separation between holes (3 and 14) and some seemingly random.  There are some low profile mounds in front of some greens (1) that affect runups in an interesting fashion.  There is one conical mound about 5' high in the left front of 16 that is pretty cool and some greens melding into tees (16G/17T).  

This really is a great golf course and a perfect complement to the East.  Fun to play, hard to lose a ball, great for fathers and sons, grandfathers, fathers and sons, and other generational combinations.  Yet a challenge at just under 6000 yards.  As Tom Paul mentions, it must have the shortest Par 3,4,4 combination in all of golf.  From the back tees 6(3), 7(4) and 8(4) are 119, 287 and 242 yards!  While you can go birdie-birdie-birdie, there are plenty of others to be made.

[Mike_Sweeney]

My questions are:
1) Is there still courses in US where we can see these old features (chocolate drop mounds,...)? Where ?

See Cape Arundle in Maine by Travis, and while I have not seen it Myopia Hunt in Mass, I believe. Also, I think some at Garden City (below) may be considered:


 
2) I’ve read the interview of Bob Cupp on GCA and learn he has designed Palmetto Hall Plantation in 1992 with geometric features. Are there other examples of modern courses with geometric features like that ?

The architect that seems to use it the most now is Brian Silva, the most obvious is his Raynor tribute course in Tennessee Black Creek:



3) Are the square tees of the current courses a reminiscence (and perhaps the only) of this early geometric design period?

I thought they came more from the RTJ era, but I have been wrong before.

[TEPaul]

Wayne:

Actually, those really interesting mounds and bunker combinations around #13 greens were all apparently done by Richie Valentine, probably in the 1960s.

[TEPaul]

Just look at that bunker and green of the Silva creation at Black Creek! How could one not appreciate that---if not at the very least for its diversity?

[wsmorrison]

Yep, Tom I knew that--I was remiss in not recognizing his contribution there, thanks for doing so.  He did a really fine job.

[Forrest Richardson]

Sébastien — Square tees are a product of convenience and practicality. While geometric, they have roots simply to the artificial preparation of teeing grounds, often being squared to the line of play.

[ForkaB]

Seabstien

There is an advertisement in a Scottish golf magazine for Dunkerque Golf Club in France which has a stunning picture of a very geometric green complex.  I haven't been able to get any more information on this.  Might you be able to, perhaps?

Merci.

[john_stiles]

As to geometry at Black Creek,  two rectangular, almost squared, greens separated by a large parabolic swale become the 17th hole, the biarritz.

[Brad Tufts]

I do not think there are any "chocolate drop" mounds at Myopia per se, but there are mounds in a few places that cover piles of rocks.  Examples of this are between the 2nd and 13th fairways, the mounds protecting the 7th green from the 4th tee, right of the 14th fairway, and left of 15 fairway.  I have heard that Silva wanted to get rid of them when doing work on the course in the 80's, but it would have cost more to remove the rocks underneath than he wanted to spend.  It's a good thing he left them, because they are probably some of the oldest features on the course.

-Brad

[Mark Brown]

Don't forget cigar bunkers.
New geometric designs -- I hope not, although Silva is doing some good Raynor inspired work, as well as Chechesse Creek by Crenshaw and Coore near Hilton Head
Macdonald and Raynor ued a lot a geometric features -- check out Mountain Lake near Orlando -- Silva renovated it.

[JakaB]

The chocolate drops at Kebo Valley are world class...at least that is what a little birdie told me..

[Patrick_Mucci]

GCGC has some rather nice geometric features that work out quite well.

I don't see the objection to geometric design and features if if FUNCTIONS well.

[TEPaul]

"I don't see the objection to geometric design and features if if FUNCTIONS well."

Pat:

I think most golfers feel that way. I've always had a bit of a problem with geometric or noticeably artificial or engineered architectural features but I'm sort of getting over it now, particularly, as you say, if they really do work great for golf.

Aesthetically, though, I never will feel geometric, artifical or engineered architectural features are as impressive and admirable as those that one really can't easily tell if they're man-made or natural. To me, the latter type will always be the best aesthetically and consequently the most impressive architecture to me but of course that's certainly assuming they work great for the golf  ball and golf too.

[A_Clay_Man]

I wonder how many of these features,
 that are being called geometric,
 actually do mimic shapes
 found naturally.

Before moving to NM.
I thought many of the Langford/Raynor esque
 sharp edges were  manufactured looking.
Now, I know all those sharp,
hard falloffs, do occurr naturally.

Victoria National is an interesting study here,
 because the site's pre-use,
created many of the humps and bumps,
 hallars and hazards.

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