Just how "important" is GCA.com?

[Bob_Huntley]

Is GCA important. It is to me. I'm addicted to the bloody site and get withdrawal symptoms when I cannot log on. I may be naive, but I am sure there is not an architect in the country that is not aware of the critiques of their works on this site.

One has to be cognizant of the fact that the architect is generally given a piece of land, however unsuitable for a golf course, a budget and an outline of what the owner/s want. Not all less than satisfactory creations are the sole responsibilty of the designer.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul;

I think you're right.

I sense this site is similar to the Howard Stern radio show, only within the golf architectural universe.  Nobody will admit that they tune in, but everyone does.  

[THuckaby2]

Adam:

So I gather we are to assume a certain importance for golf and golf course architecture, and then the question is how does this site fit in in the scheme of that?

I can live that, though the greater question to me remains if golf or by extension golf course architecture has any true importance.

But let's say it does, to some people anyway.  That is certainly true.

And to that end, Tom Paul's last post there is instructive (thanks, Tom).  I suppose if it is listened to at all by those who truly can make a difference in golf, then it does have a certain importance.

I just do think the site is likely ignored far more than it is listened to... for the reasons JakaB says, and for the "groupspeak" reputation this site has, for better or for worse... So far more minds are cemented in their current positions than changed to something "better" due to what is said here... such that the importance of the site might be that it is more a negative than a positive... But that's just a very pessimistic view and I certainly hope I am wrong and/or just got up on the wrong side of the bed today.  

In any case as I say I am FAR FAR FAR not well-connected enough to know one way or the other.  This is just my impression from listening and watching.

TEP would know better.

TH

[TEPaul]

"I can live with that, though the greater question to me remains if golf or by extension golf course architecture has any true importance."

TomH:

And then the even greater question remains---if golf and by extension golf architecture has no true importance, are you Tom Huckaby of any importance???

Woo, woo, woo----you're getting a little existentialist here, don't you think? You should call up Rich Goodale and you both could get into a fascinating middle school existentialist discussion over this!  

 

[THuckaby2]

"I can live with that, though the greater question to me remains if golf or by extension golf course architecture has any true importance."

TomH:

And then the even greater question remains---if golf and by extension golf architecture has no true importance, are you Tom Huckaby of any importance???

Woo, woo, woo----you're getting a little existentialist here, don't you think? You should call up Rich Goodale and you both could get into a fascinating middle school existentialist discussion over this!  

 

TEP - no need to bring in the heavy hitters.  I KNOW I have no importance.

 

But on the heavier side, do you think this site is ignored or listened to more often?  Do you think it's dismissed for groupspeak, or do light bulbs go on?

Again, honest questions.  I do remain quite removed from the powers that be in golf.

TH

[gookin]

As a Green Committee Chairman it helps me do a better job.  I am better informed on issues.  I have access to alternative points of views.  All helps me make better decisions.  For me this is important.  And if you are interested my wife thinks you are "my people".

[TEPaul]

"So far more minds are cemented in their current positions than changed to something "better" due to what is said here... such that the importance of the site might be that it is more a negative than a positive... "

TomH:

I think the site is important and has had some positive effects the totality of which most on here would probably have no real way of knowing about. But if you actually think this website has annoyed even more people into doing the opposite on courses than some of the things discussed or recommended on here, well, then, I think this site is definitely not THAT important!  

[TEPaul]

"TEP - no need to bring in the heavy hitters.  I KNOW I have no importance."

Look, Tom, obviously for some reason you're just feeling sort of irrelevent today. Why don't you go on home, have a nice dinner and go to bed and get some rest? Very likely you'll feel much better tomorrow than you do today!

[THuckaby2]

TEP:

Many thanks, on both accounts.  And btw, I know my importance in the scheme of the world.  There are those for whom the sun and the moon begins and ends with the kid here.  I just also know my importance in the world of golf, which is as an irritant at best!

 

[TEPaul]

"And if you are interested my wife thinks you are "my people".

David B:

My wife thinks all the GOLFCLUBATLASers out there are "my people" too. Unfortunately she also thinks both me and "my people" are a bunch of raving lunatics!



If someone from GOLFCLUBATLAS calls me she's apt to give me that squinty look and ask: "Did you meet THAT person on THAT website--- but I always say; "Oh no, just somebody I used to know from college".

[TEPaul]

"there are those for whom the sun and the moon begins and ends with the kid here."

TomH;

Is that right? I admire you then---that's very impressive. I've tried many times to hoodwink some people like that but it's never remotely worked.

[THuckaby2]

TEP:

You just have to try harder, I guess.  Either that or have kids under 10 years old.  

BTW, our wives are remarkably similar in this out-take.  I bet you all didn't know you each were a Santa Clara grad.

 

[Tom Dunne]

I certainly think GCA is influential, if not "important". I am (obviously) much more of a lurker than a poster, but I gain an awful lot of perspective from this site, and I would thank you all for that. The gathering of talent--from architects and historians to writers and superintendents--is just too great to ignore. Whether it is changing the world of architecture, or influencing the kinds of courses that are finding their way onto the ground is another question entirely, and certainly not one I'm at all prepared to answer. I do think that some members who closely identify with the site, and know many other members on a personal level, might be tempted to downplay GCA's importance, but there is without question a broader audience out there that is taking it all in--some of whom have never considered architectural matters before. Everything else, aside, the simple fact that there is intelligent dialogue taking place is important, because as far as I know it isn't happening anywhere else online. Ultimately I think it's impossible to quantify the "importance" of GCA beyond Mr. Morrissett's bandwidth, but I believe it exists, and if nothing else it is important to those who post and read every day.

[Lou_Duran]

I would find it instructive for John K and/or one of his other personalities (BarneyF, JakaB, etc.) to detail in mid-level high school English (as commonly used in Ohio, Indiana, So. Illinois) what it is about this site that is lacking.  I.E. in simple, complete sentences without code or arcane references, what are the issues negatively affecting gca.com?
BTW, what is a "butt-boy"?

To the extent that playing golf at some of the better courses is important to many of us, this site is important.  The fact that a large number of people from all parts of the industry participate (as posters and lurkers) speaks volumes.  And we all know "important" people at various clubs who selectively follow the discussions here.  They may disagree with some of the content vociferously, but they certainly are aware of the issues.  I would wager that even Fazio and Nicklaus are aware of the site and have looked-in on occasion.

As to Huckaby, he is going through his Aw-shucks routine again.  "America's Guest", and quite possibly the second or third most-beloved figure on this site, is a great student of gca.  He is just more into the applied disciplines than just pure research.  And we need both types to expand the body of knowledge.

[THuckaby2]

As to Huckaby, he is going through his Aw-shucks routine again.  "America's Guest", and quite possibly the second or third most-beloved figure on this site, is a great student of gca.  He is just more into the applied disciplines than just pure research.  And we need both types to expand the body of knowledge.

Well that's nice of you to say and I do appreciate it, Lou.  And you have me nailed re that 2nd to last line.  

[TEPaul]

"Either that or have kids under 10 years old."

Are you nuts?? I'm willing to try but definitely not that hard! Perhaps you didn't know it but one of my greatest idols is W.C. Fields!

[THuckaby2]

"Either that or have kids under 10 years old."

Are you nuts?? I'm willing to try but definitely not that hard! Perhaps you didn't know it but one of my greatest idols is W.C. Fields!

Your wisdom remains impeccable.  

[Mike_Cirba]

This thead reminds me of the awful joke about the indigent couple who's having trouble conceiving and the husband comes back home from the fertility doctor in a Rolls Royce, wearing a tuxedo, and smoking a fat Cuban.  When his wife asks what he's doing, the man replies, "honey, doc says I'm Impotent, so I'm gonna start acting Impotant".

[JakaB]

Lou, Dan and TomP...

Very simply....Golfclubatlas, Google, digital cameras, ease of travel, unaccompanied play, the growing middle class, magazines, The Golf Channel and any and all forms of communication beyond face to face discussions or hand written letters all play a part in hurting architecture.....it all leads everything to the middle and has eliminated surprise from the game.    Just in the last few years what is good has become so blatantly obvious that we get very little but that....it's all so good I want to puke..

[JakaB]

Shivas,

There is more variety and difference of shot in the courses you mention above than will be in next years Golfweek Modern top 10....and when Bandon Trails and Sebonack come on board it's going to be even worse....or better if that's what you like...

[George Pazin]

Just in the last few years what is good has become so blatantly obvious that we get very little but that....it's all so good I want to puke..

If golf reveals character, then what the heck does this sentence say? Yikes - seems like you'd criticize my parents for having 4 happy kids....

"Important" in the sense everyone is using is too personal a word for the overall discussion to have much meaning, unless someone wants to sit around, light up and wax philosophical.

Wish I could've been a fly on the wall of Tom P's NY dinner! My one experience listening to Tom P, Pat Mucci, Ran and Gil talk golf on Gil's deck will always be one of my favorite memories.

[JakaB]

Come on George....If every parent had four happy kids the world would be a boring place in a couple of generations.   You might not notice right away....but give it time and it would be pure hell.  Have a nice weekend happy boy...  

[Eamon Lynch]

If GCA wasn't at least representative of an informed, if small, subculture among golf fans, then presumably Sports Illustrated wouldn't have bothered writing about the site and its members in 2003.

[gookin]

TEP,

Our wives would do well together.

[TEPaul]

John B., my fine feathered friend;

Regarding your post #43, let me first thank you for answering my question, and secondly, as Tom Huckaby just said to me so will I say to you;

"Your wisdom remains impeccable!"

You and I just may share that aching and forever to be unrequited sensation that we were simply born way too late!