Golf Digest Match Play: Rees vs. Fazio

[Scott_Burroughs]

Titled "Deans of Design:  The Top Architects in Golf Square Off", the monthly Match Play feature in GD has Rees vs. The Faz answering 9 questions, usually golf-related.

Love Fazio's answers for #6, #7, and #9.  (#6 is not a surprise, in #7, he doesn't know where next year's U.S. Open is being played - in the state where he lives most of the year, and the #9 answer is priceless, literally).

Here's the link to the article

[mike_beene]

Paul Casey was at least partially right.

[TEPaul]

Tommy Nacarrato could've closed both those guys out by the 6th!  

[Philippe Binette]

Is Rees Jones comment on St.Andrews is serious...

[Mike_Cirba]

Is Rees Jones comment on St.Andrews is serious...

Yes, Philippe...that's not just a cheap cliche aimed at marketing his services.

Why Rees is so inspired by the design lessons of the Old Course that he emulates it in all of his designs.  Can't you see the Principal's Nose in this picture?

[wsmorrison]

Mike,

It looks more like the Principal's Ass.  That is not architecture.  I noticed you posted this picture before.  What course is this?

Regards,
Wayne

[Mike_Cirba]

Wayne;

This is Belle Terre in South Carolina, but it could be Falcon's Fire, or Wild Wing (Falcon), or LPGA International, or.......

[wsmorrison]

If people are dumb enough to accept design proposals like that, they ought to be stuck with them.  If people are dumb enough to join clubs like that, at least it keeps them off courses you and I will be on  

[Mike_Cirba]

If people are dumb enough to accept design proposals like that, they ought to be stuck with them.  If people are dumb enough to join clubs like that, at least it keeps them off courses you and I will be on  

Well, Wayne...

This "design" comes from the "Father Of Neo-Classicism" according to much of the mainstream golf press.  

This is the guy who says his designs are inspired by The Old Course, of all places.  

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Mike,

If you ever post that picture again I will jump out of my second story office

[T_MacWood]

I don't think St. Andrews was the inspiration at Belle Terre...more likely it was Reese Witherspoon.

Does Tom Fazio read?

[wsmorrison]

Below is the course descripition from the Belle Terre website.  The developers ought to be ashamed for this one, but not as much as Rees Jones.  It almost doesn't matter that Jones has done good work (Huntsville in PA for example), courses like this should seriously compromise anyone's regard for him.  I agree with Kelly, please don't post this photo anymore  


"The Championship Course, a par-72 that plays all of 7,013 yards, is a visual delight at every turn, with shimmering lakes setting the boundaries on several holes and scenic wetlands on many more. Some of the fairways are raised along the water and wide open, while others roll quietly through forests of lowland pine.

Many of the greens are bunkered right and left, but Jones has left the approaches open to encourage more bump-and-run attacks on the flag stick. The classic feel of the Belle Terre design is enhanced by the absence of housing developments.

Jones has incorporated into the Championship Course's design many of the "finishing touches" for which he is renowned, such as greens that undulate moderately rather than taking you a 3-putt roller coaster ride; and fairway mounding and bunkering that helps formulate strategy and direct play rather than penalize. With five sets of tees, this course ensures a fair outing for every member of the family or foursome."

[TEPaul]

The thing that really fascinates me is almost all architects seem to say what Rees Jones said about TOC---eg it's where it all came from and it's what all architecture basically emulate. As far as I can see although everyone always says that very few ever really did emulate it. They probably should have but they didn't!

[Kelly Blake Moran]

TE Paul,

I absolutely agree, you make an excellent point.  I have nowhere else I can point the finger other than at myself, and I have wrestled with my inability to at least faintly emulate what I thoroughly enjoyed at TOC.  It probably is a lot like going to church and saying all the right things, then behaving the way you do the rest of the week.  Terrible ananlogy though for such a pointed and searing observation by you. Thanks.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Mike,

It looks more like the Principal's Ass.  That is not architecture.  I noticed you posted this picture before.  What course is this?

Regards,
Wayne

Wayne, be nice, otherwise Pat Mucci will come to Philly looking for you...

Mayday would never say such a thing.  Perhaps you two should spend more time together.  

-DRB

[George Pazin]

I always assumed that when most architects reference TOC's influence, they're just talking about the fact that it started the 18 hole thing....

[Sam Sikes]

Does Fazio have a learning disability or something?  How could you possibly be the "most powerful person in course architecture", and not no that there are 100+ clubs in America that are older than his personal favorite Pine Valley.  You have GOT to be kidding me.  How could you be so ignorant about the roots of your own profession.  That really pisses me off.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I felt like I was reading the dumbed-down version of the novel from the motion picture "Dumb and Dumber."

[wsmorrison]

Doug,

Pat Mucci knows where to find me.  Let me see him defend the "architecture" in that POS Mike C posted.

Mike Malone likes that course, he says it reminds him of Flynn    By the way, I won't be seeing Mike for a long time, he's moving the 8th green at Torresdale-Frankford.   Then Tom Paul will kick the crap out of him and make him move it back again.  

Tom will be like the guard with the sunglasses in "Cool Hand Luke" watching Mike do the work in leg irons.

[JBergan]

Below is the course descripition from the Belle Terre website.  The developers ought to be ashamed for this one, but not as much as Rees Jones.  It almost doesn't matter that Jones has done good work (Huntsville in PA for example), courses like this should seriously compromise anyone's regard for him.  I agree with Kelly, please don't post this photo anymore  


"The Championship Course, a par-72 that plays all of 7,013 yards, is a visual delight at every turn, with shimmering lakes setting the boundaries on several holes and scenic wetlands on many more. Some of the fairways are raised along the water and wide open, while others roll quietly through forests of lowland pine.

Many of the greens are bunkered right and left, but Jones has left the approaches open to encourage more bump-and-run attacks on the flag stick. The classic feel of the Belle Terre design is enhanced by the absence of housing developments.

Jones has incorporated into the Championship Course's design many of the "finishing touches" for which he is renowned, such as greens that undulate moderately rather than taking you a 3-putt roller coaster ride; and fairway mounding and bunkering that helps formulate strategy and direct play rather than penalize. With five sets of tees, this course ensures a fair outing for every member of the family or foursome."

What do they mean by "direct play"?  Is it analogous to "hit it down the middle and you'll be fine"?  If so, how can a course be strategic and encourage "direct play" at the same time?  

[peter_p]

That picture is vaguely pornographic.

[Brent Hutto]

John,

In the phrase "help formulate strategy and direct play" the word "direct" is a verb, parallel to "formulate". The mounds "direct play" meaning they direct the ball back toward the center if you hit it off-line.

In other words, the course is designed to funnel crooked shots back toward the green and to give you an easy putt when you get there. They could have just called it an "easy resort course for hackers" and left it at that.

[JBergan]

I've only played two Rees courses (Arcadian Shores and Hell's Point).  I don't remember there being bunkers like the Belle Terre photo at Arcadian Shores.  There may have been a few at Hell's Point.  When and why did Rees start with the dinner plate, homogenous bunkers?  Ease of construction and maintenance?

[JBergan]

John,

In the phrase "help formulate strategy and direct play" the word "direct" is a verb, parallel to "formulate". The mounds "direct play" meaning they direct the ball back toward the center if you hit it off-line.

In other words, the course is designed to funnel crooked shots back toward the green and to give you an easy putt when you get there. They could have just called it an "easy resort course for hackers" and left it at that.

My bad.  I misread it.  My dislike of Rees' pieces arises out of the probability that my shots will hit the outside of the mound and be directed toward woods or water.    So much for easy, resort courses.

[Michael Dugger]

Photo of the dunesland next to Sandpines....