Feature interview with David Dobby...

[Ran Morrissett]

... and new Cinque Ports course profile are now posted.

By accident as opposed to by design, I went jogging along the sea wall at Deal in 1990. As I looked left down from the wall there was this links  but I couldn't tell much. The strip of land that paralleled the water was full of creases and folds and I could make out fairways here and there but not for too long. The holes seemed to bob and weave and in short, the course looked IDEAL in every respect. After wasting the next fourteen years , I made it back to play there last month and my high expectations were more than met.

For fans of true links golf, many including myself suggest seeing Deal ahead of several of the courses on the present Open rota including Turnberry, Birkdale and Muirfield.  Indeed, as one Brit posed to me yesterday, what do you think of the idea of the Open returning to Cinque Ports? The fields that border the western portion of the course are sufficiently large to host the tented cities that come with a modern Open. With 7,000+ yards of links, the course has the length required. However, perhaps more harm than good would come from it (think of the demise of the 17th green complex at Hoylake)? Maybe Deal will have to be content with having 'only' been awarded five Opens.

Have a read of Club Historian David Dobby's account of the evolution of the course in this month's Feature Interview and see the 25 plus photographs in the course profile. As at St. Andrews and  Rye, this course is not about views but about golf. And Dobby's account shows just how much thought and attention for 110 plus years has gone into making the golf so compelling.

We all like having a special links. For some in this DG, it is Machrihanish; for others it is Dornoch or perhaps Cruden Bay. Go have a play here next time and you might agree with Bernard Darwin and Sir Peter Allen (and our very own equally famous Noel Freeman, who is a member) that it doesn't get much better than Cinque Ports.

Cheers,

[TEPaul]

Ran or Golfclubatlasers:

How much can any of you tell me about Sir Peter Allen? He wrote a fairly impressive introduction to Warner Shelly's Pine Valley history book known as "The Chronicle". Sir Peter belonged to PVGC, and he definitely seemed to completely catch the essence of it. Of course no matter how much he loved it or knew about it he probably never could've known as much about it as Patrick Mucci thinks he does!

[wsmorrison]

Ran,

It was one of my great pleasures in golf to spend some time with you in the UK.  I spent the morning at Royal St. George's and met up with everyone later in the day at Royal Cinque Ports.  It was one of my favorite days in golf.  From tea before teeing off to dinner and drinks later in the evening, it was a delightful day in Kent.  I suggest anyone playing golf in the London area take the trip out to the Kent coast for the great golf and charming towns in the district.

I thought very highly of RCP and hope to revisit the course someday with Noel, David, and the other fine fellows we met.  I can envision Rick Holland's superb approach putt on 3! From the back left to that pin position and put it a foot away was near miracle.  In 10 or more repeat attempts, none of us came within 10 feet of the pin.  

The rolling fairways and interesting green sites make this a course not to be missed.  If you want to combine great golf and greater fellowship--Royal Cinque Ports should be on everyone's list.

By the way, Ran.  Heck of a drive with your first real swing with that hickory driver!  I heard they're putting bullet-proof glass on the pro shop window  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Glad to see RCP get its due, although I think that Mr. Dobby's timeline is slightly off. Horace Huchinson's British Golf Links published in 1896 would prove this.

One disappointing thing about the interviews is the lack of any information on the infamous "Sandy Parlour."

[NAF]

Deal is IDEAL!

I am fortunate to be a member of this place.  All I can say is that this course continues to make my heart sing.  I am indebted to David Dobby for teaching me so much about this course and helping me to become a member.  There is something about Deal that gets me excited.  I long to play there everyday--the only other place that does this is St. Enodoc.  While Deal is not open to superlatives as being as beautiful as Ballybunion or as grand as Royal St. Georges there is something inexplicable in its greatness. Ran felt this I believe.  There is something about the larks singing above you when you are here like Darwin said, they sing a little louder, their joy is higher. Perhaps it is because holes like #3,6,16 and 17 have shots you won't see or play anywhere else in the world of golf.  Something in Deal inspires me, I've only 4 eagles in my life, 3 were at Deal and two were in match play!

When the light gets low on the Downs (the Channel) in late summer, the course almost appears like a time warp, I feel like I'm in the 1920s.. If only I had Ran's hickories!

I also like to read Matthew Arnold's Dover Beach when I am at Deal.. It was written nearby.

Let me also say David Dobby is a gentleman, a great soul and a wonderful architect and poet.  The club sec, Ian Symington is also a terrific bloke.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Sir Peter Allen was an industrialist who eventually became Chairman of Imperial Chemical Industries.  My father worked for ICI and met him a few times, once or twice on golf courses (Little Aston for one), though I don't know whether they actually played together.  ICI in those days was a very successful company and had plenty of money to pay for its employees' social events and there were many golf matches between different divisions of the company, inter-factory matches etc.  He had been an Oxbridge Blue and certainly played to around scratch.  He travelled widely for the company and seemed to find time to play many of the world's great courses.  He was at various times a member of West Byfleet, Woking, Walton Heath, Sandiway and Kanawaki.  At the time of writing his 'Play the best courses' he was a member of the R&A, Rye, Royal St George's, Royal Cinque Ports, Pine Valley and Augusta National.  He was, apparently, Augusta's first non-American member.

He was also passionately interested in railways and he wrote a book about his travels all over the world in trains of one sort or another.  I read it many years ago and found it fascinating.  I can't for the life of me remember its title.

[TEPaul]

Wayne:

It's too bad I wasn't over there with you at dinner and drinks since I could've really shown you what the outside edge of the spectrum is with fun at dinner and drinks! It's not drinks and dinner anyway---as in drinks and then dinner--it's drinks and then drinks with dinner or "drinkner". Matter of fact, if the golf course is really super superb architecturally I can meld and merge the aesthetics of drinks and dinner into one so seamless that it's virtually impossible for even the most sophisticated golfer or golf architectural analyst or even famous clubhouse drunk to tell if there was one iota of "contrast" at all between drinks and dinner! If the course is architecturally good enough and the atmosphere fits it I can create virtual "at-one-ment" between drinks and dinner which golf architectural spiritualists would recognize as total religous ATONEMENT!

Now leave me alone and allow me to get to work so I can find the time to come see you later today!

[wsmorrison]

I think I will hold you to showing me the "outside edge of the spectrum" sometime soon.  Since the golf course should be superb, you name the place that will maximize the experience.  Then we'll have some nice Claret for you (not a "name" Cabernet ---a very good no name at a price that will appeal to your Quaker side) and red Burgundy for me.  Then we can get spiritual.  Of course, we should invite a few more to the ATONEMENT.  If your supermodel friends aren't around for the "drinker", then I propose we start with the likes of David Miller and Ed Baker if we really want to get to the edge.

Now get back to work and get over here.  You were supposed to be here an hour ago.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Tom, Wayne,

When you next come to these shores you must come to this part of the world.  We'll play a social round with Roger Barlow.  Like me he's not much of a player, but he's a wine importer and has one of the best burgundy lists you'll ever see and he loves to share some (quite a lot) of it with his friends.  

[George Pazin]

Between this profile and Noel's piece, as well as his frequent threads on the course (though one can never really have enough), Deal is one of the best profiled courses on the site. With Deal, Princes and Sandwich, this certainly looks like a tremendous little corner of the golf world.

How does the land in the southeastern corner of England compare to the western areas (including Wales)? Are they similar dunes, or do they differ in some important way? It seems as though the courses in the southeast have a greater reputation.

With the unbelievable advantage of the crumpled land, links courses look like one would never tire of playing the same course every day. What a wonderful thing. I am envious.

[wsmorrison]

Mark,

Thanks for the invite.  Let's work on the details when you visit us in January!  Roger sounds like my kind of fellow.  We'll get Tom to order something else besides his usual Cabernets!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

George,

The Kent Coast links are well-known because they are really so close to London that they are almost London clubs.  They are also the only links on that particular part of the coast - most of it is chalk cliffs.  There is another outbreak of links at Littlestone and Rye, but then nothing for many miles until Hayling.  I wouldn't say that Prince's would be as appealing to you as Royal St Geo's and Deal.  It's much less dramatic and the architecture is much plainer.  I don't know what the course was like before the Second World War, when Sarazen won hus Open, but it certainly suffered a great deal during the war and I suspect that most of the dunes were flattened.  It adjoins Royal St G's so it would surprise me if it hadn't once been somewhat more dramatic.  It's a very welcoming place (which is not always the case next door!) and I think it does excellent society and visitor packages but it's certainly not a potential Open Championship venue these days.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

George,

Sorry, I didn't really finish answering all your questions.  I think the thing about the dunes over which British Isles links golf is played is that they are all so very different.  I've been mulling over all the different links courses I know and there really is no similarity between any of them.  They all have completely different characters which is one of the things that makes them so fascinating.

I don't think Royal St George's was anything like as well known outside knowledgeable golfing circles until the Open came back there in 1981.  It's previous Open was in 1949.  As to reputations, I think that depends on where you live.  We in the north-west tend to think of Hoylake, Birkdale and Lytham first and the south-east much further down the list, but there is no denying that R St G's has the more spectacular dunes and Deal, too, has much greater movement than the Lancashire/Cheshire courses.  (Birkdale obviously could have that movement but the course is routed along the bottoms of the valleys).  

[ForkaB]

Good stuff, Ran.  Thanks.

The fine photographs and the prose have helped me recall some very fond memories from my one and only time there, in 1981.  The variety of the holes (particularly the green sites) is stunning and I particularly like what seems to be a very subtle and restrained use of bunkering.  Love the number of greens which are raised, particularly the ones which are only slightly so.  This sort of minimalism is sorely lacking in most modern designs, IMO.  One question I have is the maintenance of the banks around these raised greens.  Some of them look a little hairy.  Am I right, and if this is so, is this the normal practice, or was it an anomaly the time you were there?  Maybe the Naffster would know.

Very much looking forward to reacquainting myself with this marvellous links in May!

[Sean_A]

Mark

You are spot on!  Princes, Deal and Sandwich are all very different but in the same family; cousins if you will.  

I can think of no hole on Princes which uses their somewhat limited dunes the way Sandwich does.  Sandwich (having generally the largest dunes of the three) has a few holes which require precision driving or you the player is faced with a blind/semi-blind shot.  Deal on the other hand is less predictable and primitive.  My gut tells me that Princes and Deal were once similar.

This is no slight on Princes, I think it is a very good course, but not in the class of Sandwich, but then I rate Sandwich as the best day out to be had on a links.

In any case, these three with Littlestone and Rye are a quintet to compete with any area in terms of quality, variety and price.  

Rye is a course I would dearly love to play again.  About 5 years ago it went American style private-no visitors.  A very unusual policy for a club in the Isles.  I am not sure why they don't want visitor green fees.  Such is life.  

Ciao

Sean

[Sean_A]

Tom, Wayne & Mark

I too swill the red ale.  Though I tend to lean toward Bordeaux.  A few trips a year keeps the cellars in good order. Though I must say that the 5 Year Bordeaux Plan of pricing wine out of the punter's market has stripped some charm off those Margaux labels.  Lately though, I have been discovering the virtues (and sins!) of Corbieres.  You would be amazed at what 3 Euros can buy!  To be fair, the Italians have really raised the quality level of their wines, especially the Tuscans.

Ciao

Sean

[wsmorrison]

Sean,

I have always been a huge fan of Italian wines.  Some of my favorites are Ceparello and Cabernets from Isole e Olena and Amarone from Bertani.

My favorite Burgundies begin with just about anything from Robert Ampeau especially his Meursaults.  He keeps the wine in his caves until he decides they are ready to be shipped.  Expensive to maintain inventory like that but he is a special vintner.  Wines by Patrice Rion and Dugat Py are also phenomenal.

You and Tom Paul lean toward Bordeaux.  Here my favorite artisan wine is Chateau St. Mambert.  I think they only make 2000 cases a year.

For those of you not living in the US but not in the backward state of Pennsylvania where we must live with state controlled liquor stores, anyone interested in great wines at reasonable prices should check out Moore Brothers in NJ and DE.  Greg Moore was the Sommelier at Le Bec Fen and now imports wines.  Most wines are from small producers but this leads to fantastically crafted wines at reasonable prices.