Pinehurst economically

[Andy Hughes]

If you were going to Pinehurst in the Spring, and there was a desire to keep the cost down and yet play fun courses, where would you play?  Tobacco Road and Southern Pines/Elks are already known quantities.

[Brian_Gracely]

When are you coming down?  How many guys?  Weekdays or weekend?

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

If you're looking to play #2 best bring your credit card because the add-on fees through surcharges and the like is really a big time rip-off. It's sad to say because, as you know, I'm a big time fan of the place -- especially #2.

It's unfortunate but clearly within the bounds of business that as demand builds for #2 in the lead-up to the Open the fees that can be charged will escalate accordingly. This is the fate of most of the other courses within the Pinehurst County Club domain -- save for such ordinary layouts like #1 and #3.

Follow the advice of others and head to Tobacco Rod, The Pit and whatever else one can handle without taking out a second mortgage.

[Andy Hughes]

Hey Brian, the same old same old trip.  Early April probably, around 8-10 guys, Thurs-Sunday.

Matt, no worries.  None of the Pinehurst Resort courses will be on the itinerary as they have gotten 'silly expensive' to me. (and they would barely be top-tier courses if they were in the Poconos )
We loved Tobacco Road last year. Or at least I did, and I am the trip planner so that is in.  

[David_Madison]

Andy:

Other reasonably priced and solid courses within half an hour of Raleigh-Durham Airport include Duke's course as well as Finley, which is UNC's course. I'm at the Governors Club, which is a better than average and not all that typical a Nicklaus course, and could help with arrangements here if you are interested.

[Rob_Waldron]

Be sure to take David up on The Governors Club...and play all 27. David graciously hosted me and a buddy two weeks ago.

We also played Tobacco Road. I highly recommend it!

You may also consider contacting The National. It is private but they generally accomodate limited outside play.

Other course to consider are Pinewild, Legacy, Talamore, Mid South (Formerly known as The Plantation, recently purchased by Bob Levy, the owner of Talamore). Davis Love's Anderson Creek is about 30 to 40 minutes away, but well worth the drive. I am not a fan of "The Pit" it is the pits!

Check out this website for more info:

http://www.sandhillsgolf.com/golf-course/default.htm

Be sure to stop at Dugan's in the Village for a Guiness and an affordable meal!

[Craig Disher]

Sean,
You won't be disappointed with Southern Pines CC but if you don't mind doubling the cost, Mid-Pines and Pine Needles are also fine courses with better maintenace. However, if you play Tobacco Road first, you may want to play it again. It can't be compared to anything else in the area. I played there last week and except for a couple of long, annoying hikes, I enjoyed every minute of it.

[Tony_Chapman]

Andy - We went down there this summer and played Legacy (a decent deal), Mid Pines, TR, Southern Pines and Raleigh CC for just over $200 total. The host at RCC was top notch!!

Let me know if you need help with lodging. My parents have a condo that would comfortably hold four people and we could probably get you a little break on the rent.

Cheers,

Tony

[Pete Buczkowski]

Andy,

You might want to try Hyland Hills, a course rarely (if ever) mentioned on GCA.  Their fees are the lowest in the area and the course has some very enjoyable qualities.  Its a 30 year old Tom Jackson design - somewhat hillier than many area tracks and not all that difficult, but from the back tees I find the course to be fun.  There are some indifferent holes (18 immediately comes to mind), but its tough to beat for the money and it is a course that makes you feel good about golf.  They will let you walk which is a rarity amongst the middle-tier courses in Pinehurst.

http://www.hylandhillsgolfclub.com/

A couple of pics from their website:
The par 4 5th, sweeping downhill around the lake:



The par 3 6th - the green is kidney shaped and falls off in the front.  The view will be much nicer in the spring.  



Pete

[Pete Buczkowski]

You should definitely see either Governor's Club or Raleigh CC - both gentlemen are as good as you'll ever meet.  And the courses will both stand out as highlights of the trip.  

I second Legacy as a nice mid-level priced course.

Your dates will most likely leave Pine Needles or Mid Pines out...they will be charging $150-175 for the spring season.  However, it would be worth going around PN just to see the work done by Fought this past summer.

Some of the other mid-priced courses that you may or may not have heard about:
- Carolina: probably avoid, but some of the holes are interesting.  The greens can get downright silly (12 immediately comes to mind) and there are quite a few blind shots that are tough on the first timer - that leads to a sloooow pace of play. (Palmer)

- Talamore: nothing special, but depending on your group they might enjoy it because its very straightforward (Rees).

- Beacon Ridge: very hilly with small greens and moderately tight fairways.  Some in our group liked, others didn't - I didn't really care for it but there are some good holes.

- Foxfire: similar to Beacon Ridge but it usually is in better condition - not a bad addition

- Little River: Have not played it.

- Pinewild: They have 36 holes that are supposedly pretty good.  Semi-private - I have not played it.

If I was choosing 5, considering a budget of $500 or so for fees it would be:
- Pine Needles or Mid Pines (play one of the classics at a steeper price)
- Tobacco Road
- Southern Pines
- Legacy
- Hyland Hills

Try to squeeze a day in the Raleigh/Durham area and play either Raleigh CC, or Governors Club/Finley.  I would definitely get Finley in but I have a biased interest there.  

Have Fun!
Pete

[michael j fay]

There is an old Ellis Maples course near Whispering Pines called Whispering Woods. I haven't played there in a number of years but remember it as a good course and a very reasonable greens fee.

There used to be a Donald Ross Package at Mid Pines and Pine Needles,it included lodging, three meals and all the golf you can play at a reasonable price. I don't know if they run it any more. Give them a call at 910-692-7111.

I viewed the newly reopened Pine Needles recently and can tell you it is all the golf course anyone can handle. Conditions are not back to their standard but a great venue.

[Greg Holland]

Another good Ellis Maples course in the area is Woodlake in nearby Vass.  Woodlake has 2 courses, one by Maples and one by Palmer.  I have only played the Maples course, and it is pretty good, and relatively inexpensive.  Check out woodlakecc.com.

[Jason McNamara]

You may also consider contacting The National. It is private but they generally accomodate limited outside play.

If I have the right course in mind (formerly Pinehurst National, right?), this is an early Nicklaus design - if you have a group of mid- to high-hcps, this course will beat them up.  

It's also not cheap - I was lucky enough to get comped but I want to say the fee was $175 or so.  It's a nice course, and it was in super condition when I was there, but I think you'd have more fun breaking your piggy bank for Mid-Pines or Pine Needles.

You can put me in with those that liked The Pit, certainly value-wise.  There's one fun par 3 (over water) that's practically hidden from everything else.  It's not too long - good for your entire group to have an informal closest to the pin contest.

Jason

[Brian_Gracely]

Raleigh CC might not be the best place to ask about next spring for a couple of reasons:

1) They are going to be doing some "renno-storation-vation" work starting sometime soon, and there is no telling how chopped up the course might be.

2) The guest and unaccompanied guest policy has become more stringent, so no unaccompanied guests anymore and no more than 7 guest (w/ member) at a time.

3) At least one member is going to be changing alot more diapers and reading text books than hitting a silly white ball in a hole a long way away.  

And it's possible that some of the Sandhills courses will try and milk the "we're near the course that's hosting the 2005 US Open" and potentially raise rates (don't know, just a hunch), so you might want to look into packages now to see if they'll make any deals with you.

[mikes1160]

I'd stay away from Woodlake - it's starting to really look beaten, at least that was my experience this past year. Legacy is always a good deal, perhaps the best in the Sandhills area. I agree with the mention of Hyland Hills - it's often overlooked and a bit short, but a great shotmaking course.

Lastly, if the final choice is Duke vs. Finley/UNC, I'd pick Duke every time. I've never understood why some rate Finley higher than Duke - neither does Ed Ibarguen!!!

[Craig Disher]

Sean,
SPCC is private but will permit outside play. That time of year might be heavily booked so make sure you call ahead. Same with Tobacco Road.

No one has mentioned CC at Whispering Pines which has 2 Ellis Maples courses. The club is also private but does accept outside play. I have played the River Course and enjoyed it more than the Maples course at Woodlake. The bunkering is clever - on some holes reminiscent of PH#2 - but somewhat nullified by tree encroachment.

Someone will have to explain to me the appeal of Legacy when so much else is available.

[Bill Gayne]

According to Talamore's website you can go out with caddies again.

[Brian_Gracely]

Bill,

Have the expanded the Llama staff to beyond two?  I've never seen more than that on the property (small pen, near the 14th? tee)

[Bill Gayne]

Brian,

I really don't know. Their website says that they are now sending out llama caddies, www.talamore.com

I was last there about six or seven years ago and being a traditionalist I decided to take a cart. At that time they were not sending out the llamas.

[Brent Hutto]

Someone will have to explain to me the appeal of Legacy when so much else is available.

I'm with you on that one. If Legacy were in my home town I might play it once in a while because it seems to be well maintained and has some nice scenery in spots. But there are probably 20+ courses within 30 miles of there that I'd rather play when I'm so lucky as to be in the Pinehurst area.

Last winter we played at Mid-Pines on a Friday and then 36 holes at Pine Needles on Saturday (on the short list of the most enjoyable days I've ever spent on a golf course). Then for some reason the group I was travelling with wanted to play Legacy on Sunday. We actually paid as much for 18 holes at Legacy as we had for 36 at Pine Needles (long story) and it was a long, boring slog.

It was actually sort of surreal. You play each hole on a fairway and green built on muck apparently dredged up from building the lakes. Then you have a 1/4-mile walk through absolutely classic Pinehurst pine forest on firm, sandy soil to get to the next low-lying, wet, overly green hole. I spent nine holes (waiting on every shot, BTW, even though we were the only walkers on the course) wishing I were back at Pine Needles before bailing and hitting the road early. What a waste.

[Jerry Kluger]

What is the name of the private Palmer course in the area and what do you think of it.  I played in Florida with a member and he said they had a very small membership.  

[Brian_Gracely]

What is the name of the private Palmer course in the area and what do you think of it.  I played in Florida with a member and he said they had a very small membership.  

Previously called Pinehurst Plantation, now called Mid South Club.  Nothing terribly special, and nothing that you couldn't get across the street at Talamore (if you like that style).  

[Brad Tufts]

All,

I've been to P'hurst several times, a couple with my college golf team (with the fantastic $25 college rate per rd.), so I dont know the prices too well, but I've been to most of the courses in the area.

I like Legacy as different from many courses in the area, and it would be a good course for a group of high handicappers, as there are multiple birdie opportunities.  As for Talamore, I thought most holes and green complexes seemed the same, and any place that needs llamas to attract players is compensating for something.  I played Mid-South last March and thought that it had improved a bit since the change of ownership.  It is a decent course with a few identity problems....some holes have sandy wastes, others lakes, and others the famous "Pinehurst-style" chipping areas.  Woodlake-Maples was a course I originally disliked, but has grown on me.  Maples weaved a good course that uses the natural slopes very skillfully, much like the Ross venues in the area.

It is tough to compare these to P. Needles, P'hurst resort, or Mid Pines as they are in a different world altogether.

I really don't think you can go too wrong in the area.

--Brad

[Pete Buczkowski]

I'd stay away from Woodlake - it's starting to really look beaten, at least that was my experience this past year. Legacy is always a good deal, perhaps the best in the Sandhills area. I agree with the mention of Hyland Hills - it's often overlooked and a bit short, but a great shotmaking course.

Lastly, if the final choice is Duke vs. Finley/UNC, I'd pick Duke every time. I've never understood why some rate Finley higher than Duke - neither does Ed Ibarguen!!!

Mike,

Its really a matter of picking your favored style of course.  Duke has a lot of similar holes - take 1&2 and 17&18 - nearly identical long 4s with uphill greens that can wear on the middle to high-handicapper.  5&6 are nearly identical as well.  I think the better holes at Duke beat the better holes at Finley - take 11-13 at Duke.  That said, the walkability, greens, conditioning, and playability of Finley cause many to prefer it over Duke.  That, and the staff is much nicer.  

Pete

BTW, here is my hole-by-hole match play of the 2 courses.  Keep in mind I have a slight bias.

1 Duke 1-up
2 A/S  (Finley's short 4 has at least 3 distinct playing options off the tee & an interesting green).
3 A/S
4 Duke 1-up
5 A/S
6 Finley 1-up
7 A/S (but I think very highly of the 7th, the pin placement should dictate the drive but most don't play it that way)
8 A/S (both par 3s are the worst on each course IMO)
9 Finley 1-up (really strong 4 beats the goofy 4.5 at Duke)
10 Finley 1-up (most hate the 10th at Finley but I think its innovative, and 10 at Duke has nothing going for it)
11 A/S
12 Duke 1-up
13 Duke 2-up
14 Duke 1-up
15 A/S (Finley's is the best 4 on the course)
16 A/S (both really strong 4s)
17 Finley 1-up
18 Finley 2-up

[Brian_Gracely]

Pete,

Finley #18 does not beat any hole on the planet.  It's TERRIBLE!!