Is Rees Jones the "Father of Neo-Classicism"?

[Mike_Cirba]

I came across this somewhat dated interview with Rees Jones.  I found the title somewhat ironic, given the seeming number of modernistic revisions Rees has been responsible for on classic courses.  Looked at another way, what Rees-wrought changes on these courses were classically inspired?

I also thought, coming into the winter and holiday season, that this site was probably ready for another 500-post thread, as the usual combatants seem to be getting heated up in recent weeks.  

So, would folks here call his original course work classically inspired?  How about his redesign/restoration work on famous classic courses?

And, if Rees is the "father" of this movement, who are his "sons"?

http://services.golfweb.com/linksmagazine/9802/interview.html

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

lolololol ok Pat, this is all yours

[Mike_Cirba]

John;

Maybe I should post a few pics to get the ball rolling?    

[HamiltonBHearst]

Mike Cirba-

Maybe i should not question you on anything Rees related when you have pictures like this at your disposal?  Does Rees know you have this bribe material?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

When I first saw the topic, I almost mis-read it as Is Rees Jones the "Father of Neo-Facism" which of course I would say undoubtedly yes. But then again some of you would think I was just picking on him.

As far as the images Mike has shown, well they don't look that bad from the ground! (Or however which way the Rees supporters like to put it) (or insert gag emoticon here)

[Mike_Cirba]

Hamilton;

I've not only got the pics, I've played two of them!  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

And just to think, soon, very soon, Torrey Pine's North Course will embrace this full flavor and aroma.

[Brad Klein]

Tommy, as usual you are being unfair to Rees Jones. As everyone (else) knows, the true fathers of neo-fascism are the 18th and 19th century European philosophers of "Sturm und Drang" - among them Nietzsche, Wagner, and Herder.

[TEPaul]

MikeC:

Great term! Do you want me to tutor Patrick of Mucci for a few days on what "neo-classicism" means or shall I just let you have him in his all his unfettered BOOBYISM?

Are those photos really of Rees courses? Two photos look (at least from the air) like his early "connect the dots" phase and the other two look like his short lived "Gothic Worm" phase!

However, it's amazing sometimes how much different golf architecture looks on the ground compared to how it looks from a couple of thousand feet---and I promise I won't remind Merion of that again!

[JBergan]

Looking at the overheads, I think I've figured out the dinner plate bunkers.  Someone in the office got a little nuts with a hole punch and the holes were misinterpreted in the field to be bunkers.  Now if I could just figure out those snaky, Dali-esque things.

[Brad Klein]

Actually, the round bunkers are just about the size of a D-4 bulldozer spun in a quick circle (I'm not kidding). Obviously, either the operator or the dozer got fuel injected with some LSD for the Dali-esque shapes. Or maybe just a triple Starbucks espresso.

[TEPaul]

To be honest I don't think those photos are Rees Jones architecture at all. Those are photos of courses done by his minions when Rees was off somewhere else doing some architecture that's really important. That can't be real Rees architecture---it looks nothing like real Rees architecture. Mike are you sure those photos didn't come out of your Southern Califonia slide sleeve of one of those Left Coast architects on drugs?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tommy, as usual you are being unfair to Rees Jones. As everyone (else) knows, the true fathers of neo-fascism are the 18th and 19th century European philosophers of "Sturm und Drang" - among them Nietzsche, Wagner, and Herder.

Brad,

Then this would mean that what Berlin was to Nietzsche, Wagner, and Herder, then Florence would be the same to Rees, correct?

Many of you are failing to look past the deception, (the alien crop circle-like bunkering) because none of you have noted the massive amounts of Rees Pieces mounds that have spawned and mulitiplied and are soon to swallow Myrtle Beach in one giant gulp. Call it,The Attack of the Rees Pieces mounds if you will, but with-in the mouth of that mound is a opening with mean and nasty teeth that would swallow a fat man whole.

Mike are you sure those photos didn't come out of your Southern Califonia slide sleeve of one of those Left Coast architects on drugs?

Mr. Paul, The only drugs that I know Left Coast Architects to take out here are usually for A.D.D.

[Michael Dugger]

If their was some value to be had in any notion of neo-classicism in golf course arch......surely the father would be Desmond Muirhead, not Rees Jones.

Either way, it is not a title I'd be proud to possess.

Why must the wheel be reinvented?  

[Bill_McBride]

Not long ago I played the private course at Pumpkin Ridge (Cupp).  I liked it all pretty much until the 17th and 18th.  The less said about the 18th the better, I think the routing through 17 ended about 1/2 mile from the clubhouse with two big areas of wetland in between so the hole is 550 yds with not one but two forced carries and a poor layup choice.  The hole that really annoyed me, #17, looked like one of the illustrated Rees holes (thanks, Mike!) but #17 at Pumpkin Ridge has a row of those perfect circles on each side of the fairway all the way to the green site, maybe 6 each side.   I think it probably looks like a top view of a lace up boot from the Sky Cam!  #17 and #18 were absolutely foreign to each other and to the rest of the course.  Pretty disappointing after 16 pretty solid holes including several really good holes.

Cupp may be one of those "sons of Rees!"  

[Matt Kardash]

Pics 2 and 3 are of "belle terre"....what a piece of crap.....at least it's a reasonablly priced ($20) piece of crap though. How Rees can say in that interview that this is a "great course" I will never know. Actually I do know, it's called marketing 101.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Great post Matt.

Michael,
While its obvious that Desmond Muirhead was slightly tweaked when it came to his later designs, you should play some of his earlier works. I think you would be a bit surprised. The greens are usually exceptionally good, as are many of the strategies that get you there.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul;

Yes, believe it or not, these are all Rees Jones original courses from the 1990's.  This is the same time period when he was being annointed the "Father of Neo-Classicsm" by much of the golf press.  

The term would seem to indicate that his architecture is some type of throwback inspired by the Golden Age classic courses.  Certainly, Rees has a lengthy history of exposure and work on classic courses which makes his stylistic and functional departure all the more baffling.  Even more puzzling is that I've seen his superb work at Olde Kinderhook, which stands out in a way that makes one wonder why he needs all of the gaudy trappings and clean lines and symmetrically soft curves and rote strategies and features.

I really don't understand which is the point of my post.  Even on all of his classic course "restorations" and renovations, I'm struggling to think of a single feature he added or changed on any of the great courses he's touched that could be called classically inspired.   Yet, he is hailed as an architect who is simpatico with Golden Age architecture.  

I guess if you keep saying it long enough, it becomes true.      

[Brad Klein]

Mike,

a lot of what appears in the guise of architecture writing is pandering to the architect and playing right into his hands in terms of marketing. Too many writers use these phrases as a shorthand - in lieu of thinking. Neo-classicism is one such example.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

A facist if there ever was one........

[Brad Klein]

Proving . . . that the only thing worse than bad taste is the free time to indulge it.

[blasbe1]

As everyone (else) knows, the true fathers of neo-fascism are the 18th and 19th century European philosophers of "Sturm und Drang" - among them Nietzsche, Wagner, and Herder.

Brad:

You may be over simplifying Nietzsche's work, but that's a conversation for another time and another Board, my favorite Nietzsche related saying, btw, is one contained on a t-shirt that I still own (got it in college) and it's classic bumber sticker material:

"God is Dead" -- Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is Dead" -- God.

When I wear it, you can always spot the ADD suffering Theists on the street b.c they all give me these horrific looks.

[Brad Klein]

Jason, I have to take issue with your suggestion I might be oversimplifying Nietzsche. The 17 volumes of work produced by this most complex and contradictory of thinkers are easily summarized in a throwaway line of a half sentence.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tommy,

Do you have a personal liability insurance policy that covers slander and defamation?

If not, you may want to purchase one  

Just a friendly piece of advice!

[Scott_Burroughs]

What happened to the picture I posted in this thread last night?      It wasn't off-topic or nasty or anything....

Here it is again, dadgummit:

The hole that really annoyed me, #17, looked like one of the illustrated Rees holes (thanks, Mike!) but #17 at Pumpkin Ridge has a row of those perfect circles on each side of the fairway all the way to the green site, maybe 6 each side.   I think it probably looks like a top view of a lace up boot from the Sky Cam!

Cupp may be one of those "sons of Rees!"  

Bill,

Here's #17 at Pumpkin Ridge (Witch Hollow) you referenced: