Raleigh NC

[Sean_A]

I am looking for courses to play in the greater area (1 hour drive perhaps) of Raleigh NC in late March-early April.  I had originally planned to play Pinehurst, but the price is quite steep-it would take a lot of courage on my part to belly up $350 or whatever.

I was thinking Duke and Tanglewood as alternayives.    Comments, concerns, advice.

Ciao

Sean

[CHC1948]

Sean,

Tobacco Road is about 45 mins. from Raleighwood....if you haven't played it, it's worth it.  I'm not as high on it as some GCA members, but it's still quite fun and different.  If you can get on...Hope Valley in Durham is the best course in the area....also Raleigh CC might be ready by that time....I went to school in Raleigh for five years and I can't say many good things about public golf in the area.

CHC

[Andy Hughes]

Sean, ask Brian Gracely for help. Or just wait a few hours, you'll hear from him when he sees the subject. He is from the area and is extremely helpful/knowledgable/forthcoming re the courses in that area.

[Brian_Gracely]

Sean,

As far as distances, it might be helpful to know approximately where you're staying, because while the airport is called Raleigh/Durham, those cities are about 20 minutes from each other...and Chapel Hill is another 15 minutes from Durham.

Ping me as it gets closer to your arrival if you're looking for someone to play with.

Private Courses:
=============
Hope Valley (Durham)
Old Chatham (Durham)
Raleigh CC (Raleigh) - might still be under going rennovations at that time...schedule is TBD...we still don't know how much the course will get chopped up.
Governor's Club (Chapel Hill)

Public Courses:
============
Duke University (Durham)
Finley - U. of NC (Chapel Hill)
Neuse GC - (Garner/Clayton...east of Raleigh)

If we decide to head down to the Pinehurst area (south on US1), there are good courses that aren't Pinehurst #2....

Tobacco Road (Strantz)
Southern Pines (Ross)
Mid Pines (Ross)
Pine Needles (Ross)

Tanglewood is an excellent course, but it's about 2-2.5hrs away, outside of Winston-Salem.  If you're going to go all that way, might be worth seeing if you can get on Old Town (in Winston Salem)

[ChasLawler]

Brian,
What about Carolina County Club?

and no Wake Forest Golf Club???.....ouch Scott

[Brian_Gracely]

Cabell,

CCC has been under-going rennovations all year and I have no idea what their re-opening schedule looks like.  While it's a good course, I've never gotten the sense that their members are glad you're visiting, so I don't recommend it to others.  But I'm just one clueless voice....not take my opinion for much

And I don't mention WFGC simply because it's Scott's track and it would be better if Scott suggests someone play there.
I've only played WFGC once, and while it had about 6-7 holes that I REALLY enjoyed (forget which numbers...Scott doesn't start on #1 or #10), a number of the holes just don't fit.  So if you're not getting the heads-up from Scott that those holes are coming, you might get into the wrong frame of mind for stretches of the course.  

[JSlonis]

Sean,

About 30 minutes south of Raleigh, you could try Keith Hills CC.  It is the University owned golf course for Campbell University(my Alma Mater).  The original course it pretty good, its on an interesting piece of property with some very good holes.  There is also a newer course that has been built since I was there.  I have not played the newer course, but I've heard from a few guys that they like the original course better.  

The original course was designed by Ellis Maples.  Another nice perk is the greens fees are rather inexpensive.

[Brian_Gracely]

Jamie,

Great call on Keith Hills.  It's one of my favorite courses and I always forget to tell people about it.  And agree with playing the original course.  And green fees are still usually less than $30.  

[A.G._Crockett]

Thanks for the suggestions!  I am not sure where I am staying.  My brother-in-law is an IBMer, so a suburb, perhaps West of Raleigh.

What is the appeal of Tobacco Road?  CHC seems to give a reserved recommendation.

Ciao

Sean

Let me, without ANY reservation, recommend Tobacco Road.  It is unique.  A day of 36 at Southern Pines and Tobacco Rd. would cost you minimally, and be wonderful fun.  Hope the weather is good.

[JNC Lyon]

Not sure how far High Point is a from Raleigh, but there is a great Pete Dye public course there called Oak Hollow. It is on a peninsula in a man-made lake. Check the archives here for more info. $15 to walk. The Cardinal in Greensboro is also of note, also by Pete Dye.

[Brian_Gracely]

Sean,

Check out Ran's profile of Tobacco Road (under Courses by Country) or see their website at http://www.tobaccoroadgolf.com.  If you've never played a Mike Strantz design, this is well worth the drive.  It's visually stunning, and alot of fun to play.  

JNC,

High Pointe is between Greensboro and Winston-Salem, so between 1.5-2hrs from Raleigh.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Brian,

and no Wake Forest Golf Club???.....ouch Scott

I'm not offended, I know my club us not where the traveler will want to play, unless they've played in the area before and have some sick interest to meet me.  

Cabell,

And I don't mention WFGC simply because it's Scott's track and it would be better if Scott suggests someone play there.
I've only played WFGC once, and while it had about 6-7 holes that I REALLY enjoyed (forget which numbers...Scott doesn't start on #1 or #10), a number of the holes just don't fit.  So if you're not getting the heads-up from Scott that those holes are coming, you might get into the wrong frame of mind for stretches of the course.  

Can't disagree with Brian, really.  The completely new holes, 3 and 4, don't mesh with the rest of the course.  They are pure housing track holes with long distances between them (and #2) on a course with otherwise short walks.  #5 was also changed a bit, but that change isn't that bad, despite the dogleg right messing with me, one with a draw.  #6 and #7 aren't too interesting, other than the fact that #7 is a driveable par 4.

The rest of the course is better.  "Standouts" (IMBiasedO) include: #1 from anywhere but back tees, although the relocation of the creek worsened it, #2 from back tees discounting the OB lining both sides, #9, #11 approach, #13 (except flatness of  green), #14, #15 (rare time that tightness of hole due to trees adds dimension to it), #16.  The par 5's are the highlight.

And Brian, I start on #1 or #10 about 98% of the time.   #16 the rest.  I know we finished on #18 when we played.  The order of the holes played varies greatly, though.  Luckily, one can just from hole to hole in many different combinations, and I've done them all, just about.

[Pete Buczkowski]

I posted this on the Pinehurst thread but its more appropriate here.  Here is my hole-by-hole match play of Finley vs. Duke.  Keep in mind I have a slight bias towards Finley with 200+ rounds there vs. only a dozen at Duke.  You should probably get somebody to do this with less bias, I'd be curious to see the results.  Note that I have the strong finish at Finley giving it the slight edge.

1 Duke 1-up
2 A/S  (Finley's short 4 has at least 3 distinct playing options off the tee & an interesting green).
3 A/S
4 Duke 1-up
5 A/S
6 Finley 1-up
7 A/S (but I think very highly of the 7th, the pin placement should dictate the drive but most don't play it that way)
8 A/S (both par 3s are the worst on each course IMO)
9 Finley 1-up (really strong 4 beats the goofy 4.5 at Duke)
10 Finley 1-up (most hate the 10th at Finley but I think its innovative, and 10 at Duke has nothing going for it)
11 A/S
12 Duke 1-up
13 Duke 2-up
14 Duke 1-up
15 A/S (Finley's is the best 4 on the course)
16 A/S (both really strong 4s)
17 Finley 1-up
18 Finley 2-up

Pete

[A.G._Crockett]

Pete,
Should you give Dook strokes for just having to wake up every day and face the fact that they are and always will be just Dook?

(Or, as an inlaw of mine from eastern NC prefers to call them, "The University of New Jersey at Durham".  He does not mean that as a compliment.)

[Pete Buczkowski]

Pete,
Should you give Dook strokes for just having to wake up every day and face the fact that they are and always will be just Dook?

(Or, as an inlaw of mine from eastern NC prefers to call them, "The University of New Jersey at Durham".  He does not mean that as a compliment.)

AG,

Be interested to hear your comments on the match play after you play there this holiday season.  I actually pulled for Dook last night against MSU...yes, I dislike MSU even more (sorry Jeffrey F.).  And I thought I already gave strokes to Duke on the match play.  

Pete

[A.G._Crockett]

Pete,
I tried to go through your match hole-by-hole this afternoon when I first read the post, but I'll have to pull out scorecards to refresh my memory.  I agree with you that Finley's strength is in the finish, though you like 18 a lot more than I do.  But certainly 15, 16, and 17 are very strong by any standard.  By the way, that terrain was my favorite stretch of the old Finley, roughly corresponding to 10, 11, 12, and then parts of 13 (I think).  It is one of the few areas of the new layout that is recognizable, though you are playing back in instead of out at that point.

It always hurts me to admit that I like the Duke course, and I have written here before that the Rees Jones work on his father's design is really good stuff.  My only problem is that I hate giving them money!    The dirty secret of my life is my graduate degree from Dook; some of my family and friends still have not forgiven that indiscretion.

[Pete Buczkowski]

AG,

You are not alone in disliking the 18th...Mr. Gracely just told me it is the worst hole on the planet but he couldn't tell me why except lob some crude statement about it being flat land...which I've played enough to know its not true.  I didn't think much of it at first but now that I've played it so many times...the hole changes so much depending on the pin location, and it is a tough hole to par to break 80!  I think many people just blindly hit driver and don't pay any attention to the cant in the fairway.  Its the one hole that I never birdied in all my rounds there.  Let's not forget that I was comparing it with the 18th at Duke...quite frankly a long uphill boring slog with no strategy that I saw in a dozen rounds.  Finley's finisher is not even in the top 25 finishers that I've played, but neither is Duke's.

BTW they redid the bunkering at Duke for the recent NCAAs held there.  Have you played it since then?  

[A.G._Crockett]

I haven't played Duke in 4 or 5 years now; who did the work?

[JakaB]

Brian

That is enough for me, I will play Tobacco Road, unless of course I find $300+ in a lost bank account.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

Cioa

Sean

Sean,

What would you pay to play Pinehurst #2...

[JakaB]

Sean,

Send me your address and the BBGE will send you a check for $50.00 so you can play Pinehurst #2....have a great time..

[A.G._Crockett]

Sean,

Send me your address and the BBGE will send you a check for $50.00 so you can play Pinehurst #2....have a great time..

John,
Is that a blanket offer to all parties on this site?

[JakaB]

AG,

No...the cat is out of the bag now...you can't imagine how relieved we at the BBGE were when he said he would cover $250 of the cost....We have always wanted to return to Pinehurst and look forward to helping someone else enjoy what may be the simplest greatest pleasure in golf...

[JakaB]

Sean,

It is somewhat of a secret society whose average height has been found to be taller than normal whose mission is to provide random acts of kindness for golfers.....no strings attached.   I don't know how so many tall people got in...but I do know that if you IM me an address we will send you a check....just do something nice for a golfer sometime and we will all be square...

[Joe Hancock]

On no other internet site will you find people who are so genuine with an offer to cover $50 bucks to help someone else enjoy an experience.

Joe

[Pete Buczkowski]

JBK,

In peak spring season it will be 335+caddie...I once donated to the BBGE caddie fund so hopefully there is still $ in there...b/c the BBGE shouldn't sponsor a cartball round at #2...or did you blow it all at Athens while playing w/ Huck...is there a need for a BBGE-sponsored Hillbilly fund-raising tour.