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Brent Hutto

Caledonia or True Blue?
« on: October 26, 2004, 11:47:24 AM »
I'm tagging along with my wife to Myrtle Beach for a conference the weekend before Thanksgiving. I'll have a free day while she's in meetings so I thought I'd take my clubs and play one of the Mike Strantz courses down on Pawley's Island.

Which course would you recommend under the following circumstances: a short-hitting (210-yard driver, 150-yard 5-iron) bogey golfer who enjoys interestingly contoured greens and chipping areas more than interesting fairways and plans on walking rather than using a cart?

From general reputation Caledonia is supposed to be more high-handicapper friendly but True Blue is supposedly the "more interesting" course whatever that means. Beats me, for someone who lives in South Carolina I almost never play in Myrtle Beach.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2004, 11:57:19 AM »
Brent,
You really can't go wrong here; both are just great golf courses.

Caledonia is indeed probably a bit more "high-handicap" friendly, but I don't think that you would find True Blue to be overwhelming, depending on tee selection.  The amazing thing about the two courses, given that they are right across the street from each other and both by Strantz, is that they are totally different.  I would venture to say that NOBODY on this site would guess that the same GCA had designed both if they didn't already know it.

If you have an entire day free, then I'd suggest that you play both.  They usually have a special deal in which the afternoon round is half price, making it a very affordable 36 holes.  Travel time is minimal, obviously.  I've done this the past two summers, teeing off at 8:00 or so, and done by 5:00 easily.  It is well worth it to see both; how many other places would you get to combo two of the absolute best public access courses you hope to play in the same day at a discount?

If I was going to play just one, I think Caledonia would have to be it, though it is a really tough call.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Jason Mandel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2004, 11:58:10 AM »
CALEDONIA 100 percent,
True blue is a very difficult course for a high handicapper.

My personal favorite on Myrtle is Tidewater though, with Caldeonia 2nd.

Jason
You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

Jfaspen

Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2004, 12:03:56 PM »
I've played both and found Caledonia to be the more interesting course.  The 18th at Caledonia is also an awesome experience.. I can't imagine how I would have felt had I not hit my ball over the green and lost it in front of the gaggle of on-lookers.
You won't go wrong with either course.  I have said that I want to play TB again, but I won't ever visit MYR without stopping by Caledonia for a round.

Jeff

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2004, 12:46:35 PM »
I've played both and found Caledonia to be the more interesting course.  The 18th at Caledonia is also an awesome experience.. I can't imagine how I would have felt had I not hit my ball over the green and lost it in front of the gaggle of on-lookers.
You won't go wrong with either course.  I have said that I want to play TB again, but I won't ever visit MYR without stopping by Caledonia for a round.

Jeff


Jeff,
I think I agree with you, simply because of the extraordinary beauty of the setting at Caledonia.  I also had about 20 people sitting on the veranda on 18; my skulled 8 iron somehow held, and I two-putted for a relieved par.

Again, though, Brent, try to play both if at all possible.  You'll have few better days of golf.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2004, 01:30:19 PM »
Caledonia. That second shot on #18 ranks right up there with my favorite second shots in golf.
Mr Hurricane

bstark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2004, 02:32:02 PM »
  As far as public courses True Blue had some of best greens I have ever played on. Some really fun holes and top shelf service. I liked it better than Jack's Pawley's Plantation down the road.

jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2004, 08:26:22 PM »
Caledonia, hands down. Second choice is the Dunes. Third choice, either one a second time. You are not likely to enjoy True Blue
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

igrowgrass

Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2004, 08:57:03 PM »
Definetly the Caledonia experience on #18 alone is worth it.  A very good golf course, the chowder at the turn is worth the trip in itself.  The drive down the entry road is probably the best I have ever seen.   I was there three weeks ago and sat on the deck overlooking #18 for about an hour or more and watched people finish their rounds.  It was the highlight of the trip.

Brent Hutto

Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2004, 09:04:09 PM »
Well, I think I'll call and at least make a morning tee time at Caledonia. If they have some special to play True Blue for an extra 25 bucks or something I may at least go over and play the front nine or something.

So is anyone going to be in the Pawley's Island area on Saturday, November 20?

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2004, 11:02:41 PM »
As much as I really like caledonia, it makes me laugh that people say that True Blue is much harder for the higher handicaper, yet everyone is saying how great #18 at caledonia is. For a good player it is an ok hole, but for even the avergae golfer it is WAY more than they can handle. A par 4 with a 75 or 80 yard forced carry second shot is pretty much textbook impossible for most golfers.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2004, 08:44:55 AM »
Caledonia, Caledonia, Caledonia.

True Blue and Caledonia are excellent examples of the extremes in Mike Stranz designs.  Limit his acreage (Tobacco Road, Caledonia, Bull's Bay) and his designs tend make much better use of the land - the "art" is well integrated into the tactical.  Give Mike lots of land (True Blue, Stonewall, New Kent) and he goes wild - making artistic land forms so far away from the playing field that all's it does is end making the course needlessly more expensive.

True Blue would certainly not be in my top 5 and maybe even my top 10 Myrtle Beach course.

Tidewater, Dunes, the Barefoot courses, Doak's Heathland course at the Legends and even Hertitage Plantation (next to Caledonia) are all better courses than True Blue.

JC  

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2004, 09:02:20 AM »
I've only played True Blue and found it to be a good golf course. For me I would place it in the middle of Mike Strantz's efforts. The course is visually deceptive the first time around. What appears to be tight landing areas in reality will be quite wide and angles that appear difficult to play won't be once you see them from behind. And in some cases lines of play that look preferrable won't be. A second trip around True Blue will be easier for this reason. I enjoyed True Blue and The Dunes because the golf courses provided more strategy than the typical Myrtle Beach course.

Brent Hutto

Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2004, 09:34:55 AM »
Naturally all these responses (plus looking at the pictures on the fishclub.com web pages) have whetted my interest in True Blue. Sort of like when you're a kid at an amusement park and the sign saying "You must be this tall to ride the roller coaster" makes the roller coaster the one ride you really, really, really want to get on.

I love courses where you can hit to what looks like a tiny little target and when you get to the ball you realize you could have missed by 20 yards and still be in great position. Or those bunkers on some Ross courses that look designed to punish a shot that doesn't carry all the way onto the green but when you get there you realize that there's 30 yards of short grass between the bunker and the front of the green and it's a simple chip (although if you manage to come up 40 yards short in the bunker now you're well and truly screwed).

The trouble is, you don't know those things playing a resort course for the first (and possibly only) time. Maybe that's why True Blue has a reputation for slow play and for high handicappers posting big numbers.

My issue with some of the other Myrtle Beach courses mentioned is the eternal "no walking" frustration. AFAIK, the Dunes, Tidewater and most of the others make you ride in a cart and so for my part those courses are pretty much right out. Not that I wouldn't play a course like Tidewater once from a cart just to see what it's like but if I do it'll be in the summer. I can't play golf when it's cool without walking. Supposedly, Caledonia and True Blue will let you walk (although they charge the same price either way). I'll have to confirm that when I call.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2004, 10:00:05 AM »
Some of you are badly underrating True Blue, IMHO.  Not to overvalue rankings, but it actually ranks higher in the most recent Top 100 Public courses list.  I like Caledonia better for the scenery and the traditional feel, but it is a close, close call. TB is a great golf course, and in many ways more memorable than Caledonia.  Certainly on a second play, you will recall more of your previous round at TB that Caledonia.

I would also disagree with those who consider TB too severe for high handicappers.  I have scored better at TB both years, once playing TB first, once playing Caledonia first.  I played all 4 rounds with the same high-handicapper, and he didn't do appreciably better or worse on either course.

TB is classic Strantz, in that it APPEARS visually much, much harder than it is, as Bill Gayne explains above.  This is very much the case at Tobacco Rd. and Tot Hill Farms, for instance.  Caledonia is NOT typical of Strantz in that it is very straightforward and traditional; the fact that he designed two great but totally different courses across the street from each other is great proof of Strantz' genius.

If you don't think TB is a great course, you need to play it again!  Just pick a different set of tees!  :)  The back set is 7000, but the second set is still 6800, which at the coast is far too long for most.  The third set is 6400, and plays longer.  My guess is that most people automatically go to the second set out of habit and/or ego, and just can't handle that yardage.  Caledonia, by contrast, is only 6500 from the tips, and 6100 from the second set.  My guess is that the 700 yd difference between the second set of tees accounts for at least 6 strokes on your round.  (What would most of us make on a 700 yd. par 5?)

By any reasonable standard, TB is among the top public access courses in the country, much less at Myrtle Beach.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2004, 10:18:55 AM »
A.G.

I thought for a while there that you were using the word "great" very generously when applying it to True Blue. Then your last comment explained it all. If True Blue is better than Pebble Beach, Pinehurst #2, Pacific Dunes, Bandon Dunes, Bethpage Black, the Cascades, The Ocean Course, etc., then it must be great.  NOT.
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2004, 10:59:53 AM »
A.G.

I thought for a while there that you were using the word "great" very generously when applying it to True Blue. Then your last comment explained it all. If True Blue is better than Pebble Beach, Pinehurst #2, Pacific Dunes, Bandon Dunes, Bethpage Black, the Cascades, The Ocean Course, etc., then it must be great.  NOT.

Jim,
Each course that you have listed is, in fact, great, and they are ranked accordingly.  All are ranked ahead of True Blue, and correctly so.  

That TB doesn't rise to their level does not, however, make it less of a golf course, just as the fact that the Ocean Course isn't the Old Course doesn't detract from the Ocean Course.  Those courses are ranked as they are for good reason; so is True Blue.  And the fact is, TB is ranked quite highly on the very same lists of public access courses.   I stand by my statement that TB is a great golf course among the public access courses in this country.  I never said it was the greatest or the only great one.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Brent Hutto

Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2004, 11:23:26 AM »
Don't you love it when someone asks for advice and then ignores it? I just made a tee time at True Blue. Walking is allowed, it's the same $90 whether you use the cart or not. I'm down as a single at 11:45AM so if anyone happens to make plans to be in the area I'm sure they could join me.

I thought about doing the combination of Caledonia and True Blue in the same day but that would mean getting up at 5:00AM and probably not getting back up to Kingston Plantation until after dinner time. Just not worth it this time around.

True Blue just looks to be a much more interesting golf course than its big sister across the street. If I play bad at least I'll get plenty of practice playing out of deep waste bunkers. That'll come in handy a few weeks later when I play the Ocean Course for the first time.

It looks like during the months of November and December I'll be playing Cuscowilla, True Blue, the Ocean Course which could easily turn out to be three of the four best courses I've played in my life. Plus Athens CC, possibly the Patriot and a couple others I have in mind for this winter that are a cut above my usual fare. Not bad for staying within 200 miles of home.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2004, 11:42:31 AM »
Brent,
Get up at 5:00 a.m.   Get back at dinner time.  Play both.  You'll thank me later.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Doug_Feeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2004, 11:46:25 AM »
Brent,

It may be a slow round, but I think you will enjoy True Blue.  As has been stated earlier, the course is very wide, but if you try to hug the inside corners and miss there is often quite a penalty.  The greens are really quite interesting - although I haven't played there since they changed to Bermuda a few years ago.

Do yourself a favor when you finish your round and at least drive over to Caledonia for a drink on the porch - it's just outside the back entrance to TB.  Watching the sunset over the ricefields from a rocking chair on that porch as groups play to #18 is quite memorable.

And get yourself a yardage book - especially if you're only playing one round.

Jfaspen

Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2004, 12:31:29 PM »
Definitly check out the 18th at caledonia for a drink.  I watched the sun-set over the rice paddy while sippin on a drink on the first day I was in MYR.  It is worth the view.

TB is an awesome course, I call it golf supersized.  I do look forward to playing it again.

Enjoy and post what you think.

Jeff

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2004, 11:39:57 PM »
My issue with some of the other Myrtle Beach courses mentioned is the eternal "no walking" frustration. AFAIK, the Dunes, Tidewater and most of the others make you ride in a cart and so for my part those courses are pretty much right out. Not that I wouldn't play a course like Tidewater once from a cart just to see what it's like but if I do it'll be in the summer. I can't play golf when it's cool without walking. Supposedly, Caledonia and True Blue will let you walk (although they charge the same price either way). I'll have to confirm that when I call.

Brent,

You are allowed to walk at The Dunes (I did), and you found out about TB/Caledonia, where walking is allowed (I did my one round at Caledonia.

Walking is likely required at Tidewater, but my wife was with me, so she drove the cart and I walked, except on the long distances between holes there.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2004, 01:14:51 AM »
Brent,

Make sure you play the correct tees at True Blue. And, as you play remember that Strantz has incorporated some serious visual intimidation throughout the course. Everything looks harder than it really is... in most cases! Some of it is just plain hard!

What did you decide to do about your buddy trip this spring? Did you look into the www.islandpackage.com trip?

A.G. is correct... True Blue is a great course.

Bulls Bay... built on limited acreage??? I played there today and, trust me, Strantz had lots of room to "go wild." Well, if that's true, you may ask, how did Bulls Bay turn out to be a decent course? With his limited spatial skills how could Strantz have possibly built a course on that much land without going over the top? The only explanation must be he's tired of the critic's label "best architect to never have built a decent course on more than 110 acres." I'm glad to see that the expert analyses of Strantz work are finally paying dividends and forcing him to keep his extravagant imagination under control.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

blasbe1

Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2004, 03:14:27 AM »
I'm tagging along with my wife to Myrtle Beach for a conference the weekend before Thanksgiving. I'll have a free day while she's in meetings so I thought I'd take my clubs and play one of the Mike Strantz courses down on Pawley's Island.

Okay B., it's Caledonia by a landslide, only problem is you've got absolutely no business being there!  

Sometimes, Turtle Soup isn't mean't for you . . . unless you're going to actualy appreciate it . . .

 

blasbe1

Re:Caledonia or True Blue?
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2004, 03:19:21 AM »
. . . the chowder at the turn is worth the trip in itself.

A . . . men, last time I checked it was an old Dude pouring Turtle Soup . . . (what's in a name anyway).

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