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Keith Durrant

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Golf Architect Ranking
« on: October 16, 2004, 12:00:39 PM »
The current issue of "Cigar Aficionado" has an article by Jeff Williams with Brad Klein, trying their hand at ranking current golf course architects, in the form of the following Top Ten:

1. Pete Dye
2. Tom Fazio
3. Coore & Crenshaw
4. Jack Nicklaus
5. Tom Doak
6. Rees Jones
7. RTJ Jr
8. Weiskopf & Morrish
9. Jim Engh
10. Robin Nelson

Honourable mention goes to:

Greg Norman, Steve Smyers, Brian Silva, Kyle Phillips.

Norman, excepted, the list is made up of American architects - should any "non-US" architects make this list?

Keith
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A.G._Crockett

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Re:Golf Architect Ranking
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2004, 12:29:02 PM »
Not having seen the article, do they present this as a world top ten, or top ten working (as opposed to from) the U.S.?

Second question would be why Mike Strantz doesn't even get honorable mention on this list, especially if Norman does.
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"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Golf Architect Ranking
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2004, 01:04:28 PM »
What's the criteria?
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jeffmingay.com

TEPaul

Re:Golf Architect Ranking
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2004, 01:08:18 PM »
I do have that magazine right in front of me and it'd probably be fair to say when that magazine compiled that list of architects they went about it very much with that "Big World" theory in mind (there should be something out there to suit  everyone's taste and the spectrum and differences in types and styles should therefore necessarily be very wide and very different!   ;)

It's probably accurate to say that due to his really unique style and outlook and the overall effect and influence of it both from within and from without, of modern and living architects Pete Dye probably very much does deserve to be on the top of that list.

Tom Fazio is at #2 and Coore and Crenshaw at #3. Tom Fazio may be more popular than Dye in the sense only that he's probably created far more courses but in my mind the real difference between the careers and the influence on architecture of Dye vs Fazio, is Pete really did create a style and type of architecture that was high in controversy (some of the greatest architects like Mackenzie (and Macdonald) maintained controversy was a necessary ingredient to produce greatness) and to a very large degree Fazio never really dabbled in controversy in his architecture at all (more likely very much tried to avoid it) other than to raise eyebrows as to the expense of some of the things he did!

I can scarcely wait for the expected annoyed reaction on that observation from one John B. Kavanaugh!   :)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2004, 01:16:02 PM by TEPaul »
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Michael Dugger

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Re:Golf Architect Ranking
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2004, 01:44:36 PM »
Isn't Cigar Afficianado the same rag that wrote Rees Jones was an architect who worked with the land?

They ought to stick to cigars.
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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

JakaB

Re:Golf Architect Ranking
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2004, 07:48:57 PM »
Quote from: TEPaul on October 16, 2004, 01:08:18 PM

I can scarcely wait for the expected annoyed reaction on that observation from one John B. Kavanaugh!   :)

The only thing right about that list is who is #1...of the people listed Dye is easily the architect the game is most in debt to for his contributions over the years of a great, great career.   Every other architect on that list could have done no better than carry Dye's shovel and the game would not have suffered a bad bounce or a poor stroke for it...
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Brad Klein

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Re:Golf Architect Ranking
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2004, 06:56:11 AM »
K Durrant,

If my name appears as prominently as you suggest then CA owes me a check I wasn't expecting. Don't blame me for this list, regardless what you (or I) think of the names on it. I had a conversation or two with Jeff Williams and I assumed he was speaking to others as well. I guess I'll have to go to the local cigar store today and check this one out, but it's his article, not ours.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2004, 06:58:08 AM by Brad Klein »
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John Kirk

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Re:Golf Architect Ranking
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2004, 10:41:37 PM »
What's interests me here is how I perceive the GolfClubAtlas community's assessment of architects.  Based on my limited time here, it seems our group would rank them something like this:

1A.   Coore/Crenshaw
1B.   Doak
3.     Dye
4-8.  Strantz, Hanse, Smyers, Silva and Spann
9.     Nicklaus
10.     Fazio

Or something like that.  I almost never read a complimentary discussion here about the work of Nicklaus, Fazio, RTJ Jr, or Rees Jones, though Nicklaus fares best among them.  There are other restoration architects (the names escape me right now) who are regularly praised here.

I do not disagree with the opinions here.  In fact, I've learned a lot here, and my taste in golf courses has changed since I joined GCA.

I would enjoy it if one of our esteemed GCA veterans would take a stab at a GCA list of architect all-stars.




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