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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Golf course construction and development, Asian way...
« on: September 29, 2004, 01:47:31 AM »
Charlie Chan say, "if you build it, who will come?"

What do you fellows think about the scope of the Chinese and other Asian projects that we see and hear about from time to time.  It seems that they continue to go to ultimate and extreme construction measures to develope golf courses as we saw in pictures from 'newbie' Micah.  

Bret "Mothman" Mogg has chimed in periodically from his Asia outposts to inform us of some to the things his firm does there.

We saw pictures of Des Muirheads Korean extravaganza where he moved half of the country to build a course.

What the heck does this all say about the Asian mentality to develop golf.  And, does this willingness, almost an obsession, to go to construction and presumably ultra high costs, have an influence on developer thinking on a global basis.  Are more and more developers seeing the previously thought to be prohibitive construction difficulties needing huge earthmoving efforts, not such an obstacle or constraint to inhibit grandiose ideas?

My personal take on it is; I don't like the trend.  It seems to me that it can't lead to more golf for the masses, only golf for very rich and elite classes that have great wealth comparatively in their regions.  There must be some sort of socio-economic factor at work in these developments that portend a divergent future for the game. Comments?
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

moth

Re:Golf course construction and development, Asian way...
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2004, 02:25:54 AM »
I am not sure that golf courses in Asia are being built to any template with regards to spending - or overspending. Korea is an extreme example - there just is not the land there for courses (plus some regulations I believe) which forces golf up into the rocky hills which need some severe adjustments to get them somewhat golf freindly.

In China, most courses are probably being built for between 4 and 7 million (a guess since most clients are fairly mum on this aspect) although there are extreme examples there as elsewhere. Land costs are invariably lower (often almost free) so I doubt that any course in Asia has approached the levels of total cost that many of the big budget courses in the US are built for. Where better sites exist, golf courses in Asia are being built for about the same that would be spent elsewhere in the world.

Unfortunately golf is not yet for the masses in places like China, Vietnam, Indonesia etc. - slowly it is coming down to the middle classes (ok upper middle classes) and it will take time for rising incomes and lowered green fees to meet. You should note that the masses in these places will NEVER play or even dream of playing golf, the general populace income of US$5/week or so is never ever going to go towards golf!

More lower end public golf courses are definatly needed to speed this process up but who will build them? - certainly not the government who have bigger problems to worry about.


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf course construction and development, Asian way...
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2004, 11:46:05 AM »
Thanks for your observations Brett.

It just goes to prove that while seldom seen or heard from, the Mothman is always watching...  kind of spooky really! ;) ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf course construction and development, Asian way...
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2004, 12:19:38 PM »
Given the political instability in certain parts of the far east and potential for 'religious' strife, who are these investors putting so much money into golf?  Will the golfing tourists come?

moth

Re:Golf course construction and development, Asian way...
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2004, 09:19:29 PM »
Mark,

Not sure there is that much political instability in the far east. China, Vietnam  etc. are pretty stable politically - only one party you know. Vietnam is rated as possibly the safest place in the world in terms of "religous" or terrorist threats - it just doesn't exist in that country. Somewhere like Laos you might get your foot blown off from an aboandoned mine but hardly likely to run across a muslim terrorist. Of course Bangkok is pretty safe, because I am sure half the Al-Qaeda is based there, planning nefararious deeds by day and visiting girly bars by night and they dont want to s**t in their own backyard!

The investors in these places are mainly locals or other Asians, who take a longer term view of the situation and are comfortable investing in places with higher levels of political risk. They do this because they are comfotable operating in places where business or legal transparency may not exist and who you know is most important. This is the way business has always been done in Asia.

The golfing population in Asia is still growing, right now South Koreans are going crazy over the game (more so than usual), perhaps as a result of their successes on the LPGA tour. Whole golf courses in SEAsia are being block booked for monthly fees by visiting groups of South Koreans looking for a place to play and practice over the winter months. In most places it is locals and expats who make up the majority of the golfing population, while tourists do not form too much of the market except in some  localities like Phuket, Kunming etc.

Justin_Hanrahan

Re:Golf course construction and development, Asian way...
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2004, 02:14:59 AM »
The other thing to remember is that the idea of a golf course as part of a development is kind of new in our part of the world (mine, Australia, especially) and it, too, is associated with over the top construction costs associated with making an average piece of land into a half way decent golf course...In SE Asia, golf and developments are about the only thing they know!

The idea of "face" and being better than the Joneses next door is also a big driver. When I was work ing in Indonesia nd the Philippines, the numebr of times I heard one of the owners (all very, very wealthy men) say..."I saw this/that/some other thing at so-and-so a course - lets do it here!"...was unbelieveable.

Must say, that there are also many examples of courses being built on totally unsuitable - yet spectacular - sites which drove costs through the roof...and were/are envionmental disasters.